本纪录片由@老婆的小三@翻译
本片由@老婆的小三@校对
【J.J.】一系列节目的节目运作人是负责的。 [J.J. Abrams] The showrunner of a series is responsible
对于节目的创意方向， for the creative direction of the show,
保持剧本和剧集准时出现， keeping scripts and episodes coming in on time,
处理笔记。 dealing with notes,
想让这该死的事情继续下去。 trying to keep the whole damn thing afloat.
乔斯·惠登(JosWhedon)是一位节目运作者，这是一件非常消耗精力的事。 [Joss Whedon] Being a showrunner is utterly consuming.
你在编辑和写作。 You're editing and writing
同时做了上百件不同的事情。 and doing a hundred different things at once.
太累了，太可怕了--我非常想念它。 It's draining, it's awful – I miss it terribly.
“节目运作人”是一个相当新的艺术术语。 [Jeff Pinkner] Showrunner is a fairly new term of art.
在过去，它是首席作家， In the former days, it was the head writer,
执行制片人。 the executive producer.
但是随着节目变得更加电影化。 But as the shows have become much more cinematic
其范围和意图， in their scope and intention,
这项工作变得复杂多了。 the job has become much more complicated.
然而，我们预计每隔七天就会举办一场演出。 And yet, we're expected to deliver a show every seven days.
[女人]表演太难了， [woman] Showrunning is incredibly brutally hard,
而且你不能真正依赖任何人。 and you can't really lean on anyone,
因为工作的一部分。 because part of the job
成为节目的大肩膀。 is being the broad shoulders of the show.
这是一份疯狂的，疯狂的，该死的工作。 This is a crazy, crazy, fucking job.
这确实很酷，但毫无意义。 It's a really cool one, but it doesn't make any sense.
就像每周都会发生一次受控的飞机失事。 It's like a controlled plane crash every week.
一天要做10亿次决定。 It's a billion decisions a day.
是你决定我们要做什么的。 You're the guy that has to decide what we're going to do.
它们只会给你带来问题。 They only bring you questions.
当你是个节目运作人时。 When you're a showrunner,
你被网络和演播室压垮了。 you're getting squished by the network and the studio.
你感到来自船员的压力很大。 You're feeling pressure from the crew on up.
人们看着你，会想，“哦，你是老板， People look at you and you think, "Oh, you're the boss,
你没什么好担心的。“。 you have nothing to worry about."
所有这些你都很担心。 You're worrying about all of it.
[罗纳德·D·摩尔]节目运作人工作的一部分。 [Ronald D. Moore] Part of the job of the showrunner
就是为你正在做的事情定下基调。 is to set the tone for what you're doing.
很多时候，我都站在一套。 Many a time, I've been standing on a set
我们正处于危机之中，就像。 where we're at some crisis, and it's like,
“好的，我们得做这个，这个和这个” "Okay, we gotta do this and this and this."
人们都是这样的，我会说，“但是...。 And people are like this, and I'll say, "But...
“我们这里不是在治疗癌症，伙计们。” "we're not curing cancer here, guys.
这是电视节目。“。 This is a TV show."
同时，它也是最好和最差的工作。 It is, at the same time, the best and the worst job.
你无法想象放弃，同时， You can't imagine quitting, and at the same time,
这是一份令你精疲力尽的工作。 it's a job that's exhausting to the core of your being.
而我总是说它给了你。 And I always say it gives you the thing
走来走去，说：“我的背太差了。 of walking around and saying, "I have such a bad back
卸下这些金条。 from unloading all this gold bullion."
[杰夫？梅尔沃因]大多数节目都不是热门节目。 [Jeff Melvoin] Most show aren't smash hits.
美国84%的新节目都失败了。 84% of new shows in America fail.
所以，你知道，希望你能战胜。 So, you know, hopefully, you beat the odds
因为如果你在比赛中停留足够长的时间，你就会赢。 because if you stay in the race long enough, you're gonna win.
而这只是一个如何才能留在比赛中的问题。 And it's just a question of how you can stay in the race.
♪♪
节目主持人是电视节目的主角。 The showrunner is the life blood of a television show.
它是一种合作的艺术形式。 It's a collaborative art form.
但你仍然需要一个中央的声音，通过。 But you still need that one central voice through which
所有了不起的创造性贡献都被加工。 all the marvelous creative contributions are processed.
史蒂文·S·德奈特]作家和演员的时代。 [Steven S. DeKnight] The age of writers and showrunners
匿名已经...结束了。 being anonymous is... is over.
♪♪
哈特·汉森我的日子也是这样。 [Hart Hanson] My day has the same shape.
它有一定的节奏，可以每天改变。 There's a certain rhythm to it that can change day to day.
如果我有写作的事要做，我会来得非常早。 If I have writing to do, I come in extremely early.
早安。 Morning.
因为大约9：00或9：30左右， Because around about 9:00 or 9:30,
我要和别人谈话而不是写作。 I'm going to be talking to people more than I'm writing.
哦，那重一吨。 Oh, that weighs a ton.
你总是有，比如说，六集。 You always have, say, six episodes
在某个车站。 at some station in the process,
所以你有一个你要完成最后的组合。 so you've got one that you're finishing the final mix on
然后锁定并希望能播出。 and going to lock and hopefully put on the air,
然后你让人们提出故事的想法。 and then you've got people pitching story ideas,
所以，你在每一件事情上都有需要注意的地方。 so you've got something to tend to on each one of those things.
做一名节目运作人的缺点之一是。 One of the downsides of being a showrunner is that
如果你做得正确，你来的每一个人。 if you're doing it correctly, everyone that you've come
接触-演员，其他作家， into contact with – actors, the other writers,
其他的制片人，网络，工作室..。 the other producers, the network, the studio...
你知道你的节目进展顺利， You know that things are going well on your show,
如果每个人都对你有点生气的话。 if everybody's just a little annoyed with you.
展示，我认为，就像画一幅画。 Showrunning, I think, is like painting a painting
一边写小说一边交税。 while writing a novel, while doing your taxes.
非常非常，非常，你知道，右脑，左脑，砰。 It's very, very, you know, right brain, left brain, boom.
“谎言之家”出自马丁·基恩的一本书。 House of Lies came from a book by Martin Kihn
关于管理咨询和它是一个怎样的骗局。 about management consulting and what a scam it is.
对我来说很重要。 It felt very relevant to me.
嗯，当你开始表演的时候， Well, when you get to the point of making a show,
它本身就很性感。 it's pretty sexy in its own way.
我要做半小时的试播.。 I get to make a half-hour pilot.
如果上帝愿意的话...演出开始了。 If, god willing, the... the show gets picked up,
我不知道该怎么做。 I don't know exactly how I'll work it.
我想写得尽可能多。 I wanna write as much as I can of it.
展示部分，行政部分， The showrunning part, the administrative part,
从某种程度上说，这真的不是给我的。 it's really, uh, not for me, in a way.
作为一个作家， As somebody who's a writer as much as anything,
这就是他们让我做任何事情的原因。 that's the reasons they let me do any of the stuff
就是我写得不错。 that I do, is that I can write okay.
当我搬到纽约，想写剧本时， When I moved to New York, trying to write plays,
乔安妮·伍德沃德和保罗·纽曼看了我的第一出戏。 Joanne Woodward and Paul Newman saw my first play
大道B的日记。 called Diary from Avenue B.
乔安妮在里面找到了她喜欢的东西。 Joanne found something in it that she liked.
他们和他们的任何一个子民都是死对头。 They were just dead set against any of their protégés
去好莱坞，搬到洛杉矶，为电影写作。 going to Hollywood, moving to L.A., writing for film,
演电影，嗯，特别是看电视。 acting in films, um, doing television especially.
他们绝对反对--当然，我们所有人都反对。 They were absolutely against it – of course, all of us have.
节目运作人必须做的部分事情。 Part of what the showrunner has to do
同时在四个不同的地方。 is head in four different places at the same time.
你处于一种持续的感觉状态。 You're in a constant situation of feeling
就像你在做，呃，不够好的工作。 like you're doing, uh, not a good enough job.
“某一年龄的男人的想法来自。 The idea for Men of a Certain Age came from
当时雷·罗曼诺和我都在项目之间。 when Ray Romano and I were both between projects.
而他，呃，他还没醒。 And he, uh, he was kind of still in the wake
每个人都爱雷蒙德，想弄清楚。 of Everybody Loves Raymond, trying to figure out
接下来他该怎么做。 what he was supposed to do next.
我们开始交谈时，一切都是存在的。 And as we started conversing, it was all existential
我们都经历过的中年危机.。 mid-life crisis stuff that we were both going through.
我们讲得越多，故事就越多。 The more we talked, the more stories we had
感觉越好，这就是我们应该做的。 and the more it felt like, well, this is what we should
写这篇文章是因为很多人。 be writing about because a lot of people can relate
对这个。一切都很顺利。 to this. And it worked out very well.
我们非常高兴。 We were extremely happy
第一季的所有剧集。 with all of our episodes in the first season.
我们觉得，你知道吗，我们演得很好。 We felt like, you know what, we did a good show
让我们把它拿出来，看看人们是否喜欢。 so let's just get it out there and see if people like it.
人们也很喜欢。 And people liked it.
我们对这个赛季也有同样的感觉。 We feel the same way about this season.
这个季节，人们还在努力寻找它。 This season, people are still trying to find it.
♪♪
如果你只记得一件事，那就是四个字。 If you have to remember only one thing, it's four words.
按时编写高质量的脚本。 Quality scripts on time.
如果你没有高质量的剧本。 If you don't have quality scripts,
那么做这些有什么意义呢？ then what's the point of doing any of this?
但是如果高质量的剧本不能按时出炉。 But if quality scripts don't come on time,
你要停播了。 you're gonna be off the air.
如果你的剧本迟到了，那是不够的。 If your script is late, it's not enough
简单地说，嗯，这很好。 to simply say, well, it's good.
不管今天是预科生的第四天，我都不在乎。 I don't care if it's the fourth day of prep.
有180人在努力工作。 You got 180 people that are trying to do their job,
而你让他们的工作变得更加困难。 and you've just made their job so much more difficult.
当你的预算猛增时， You've made your budget soar and when push comes to shove,
一切都是平等的，当网络和演播室。 all things being equal, when the network and the studio
看看热门资本，看看这个节目做了什么， look at the hot costs and look at what the show has done,
他们会说，要么我们想成为。 they'll say, either we wanna be
再和那个人做生意，否则我们就不做了。 in business with that person again or we don't.
没有什么比傲慢更能让你摆脱它， Nothing will get you out of it quicker than arrogance,
无知和，呃，超出预算，落后于计划。 ignorance and being, uh, over budget and behind schedule.
电影公司不喜欢这样。 You know, studios tend not to like that.
我认为电视正在复兴。 [Robert King] I think there is a renaissance going on in TV.
我认为这是许多特写的组合。 I think it's a combination of so much of feature writing
已经走下坡路了。 has gone downhill,
而中产阶层的特征写作已经消失。 and the middle class of feature writing has disappeared.
所以我觉得很多人真的很沮丧， So, I think a lot of people who really felt frustrated,
来到电视前说：“天哪，是谁给了我们这么多自由？” come to TV and go, "Oh, my god, who gave us all this freedom?"
可能少了点钱，但是，哇，我有故事要讲。 It might be less money but, wow, I have stories I wanna tell.
我要告诉他们。 I'm gonna tell them.
既困难又费时又有压力。 As difficult and as time consuming and as stressful
我的意思是，创造性地能够，你知道， as it can be, I mean, creatively to be able to, you know,
讲这些故事，呃，我可以控制它， tell these stories and uh, have the control over it that I do,
呃，是，是一件很罕见的事。 uh, is, is such a rare thing.
很多人都是伟大的作家。 You know, there are a lot of people who are great writers
谁真的不一定喜欢这个过程。 who really don't necessarily enjoy the process.
而且我真的很喜欢。我喜欢第一稿。 And I really do. I love the first draft
就像我喜欢重写一样。 as much as I love the rewrites.
真正拥有这些角色的想法。 The idea of really having those characters
活在我的脑海里。 come alive in my head
听到这些话只是...，这是我的急事。 and hearing the words is just... it's, it's the rush for me.
每次你做插曲的时候，你的野心。 Your ambition every time you're making an episode
这是你做过的最好的一集。 is for it to be the best episode that you've ever made.
但现实情况是， But the reality of the situation is,
我们每十天写一篇剧本。 we're writing a script every ten days.
然后，你知道，我们开始意识到，每一集。 And, you know, we began to realize like, every episode
不会是全垒打。 is not gonna be a home run.
我们开始把季节作为一个整体来看， And we started looking at the seasons as a whole,
而不是一集又一集的分析。 as opposed to a sort of episode by episode analysis.
但在这一天结束时，这场表演的遗产将是。 But at the end of the day, the legacy of the show is gonna be,
货架上有六个季节。 there's six seasons up on a shelf
然后你可以一个接一个地看着他们。 and you can watch 'em one after the other.
所以那些糟糕的情节会被洗掉。 So the bad episodes are gonna come out in the wash,
好的一集也会在洗衣过程中出现。 and the good episodes are also gonna come out in the wash.
重要的是，你知道。 All that's gonna matter is, you know,
整体讲故事的高峰和低谷是什么？ what are the peaks and valleys of the storytelling as a whole?
写22集电视节目。 [Pinkner] Writing 22 episodes of a television show
是一项艰巨的工作，任何人都能做到。 is a heavy endeavor, and anybody who can do it
靠他们自己，更多的力量给他们。 on their own, more power to them.
但我们对自己做这件事并不感兴趣。 But we're not really interested in doing it on our own.
我们对有一个作家家庭感兴趣。 We're interested in having a family of writers
他们都在为这个节目做出贡献。 who are all contributing to make the show something
这是我们共同的骄傲。 that collectively, we're all proud of.
希望当它开始播放时。 And hopefully, by the time it gets on air,
每个人都觉得其中的一部分是在那集。 everybody feels that part of them is in that episode.
其中一部分在里面。是的，我们真的不在乎。 Part of them is in it. Yeah, we don't really care–
我的意思是，有很多节目运作人。 I mean, there's a lot of showrunners that are
非常担心，因为他们的名字写在每个剧本上。 very concerned because their name's on every script
当我们有责任。 and while it's our responsibility to come up
随着故事的发展，你知道，嗯，在一致性上。 with the stories, you know, um, on a consistency
和一条我们要去的路线。 and a through line of where we're going,
你知道，这对我们来说并不重要。 you know, it's not important for us
把我们的名字写在剧本上。 to have our names on the scripts so much.
更重要的是人们认识到。 It's kind of more important that people recognize,
“好的，那些人是节目的幕后黑手。” "Okay, those guys are the ones behind the shows."
约翰，你为什么不直接去...。 John, why don't you just head for...
到第二幕结束的时候你还能知道吗？ Can you get as far as the end of act two?
是的，我能。 Yeah, I can.
到第三幕结束的时候你还能知道吗？ Can you get as far as the end of act three?
我可以演到第三幕的中间。 I can get to the middle of act three.
我只是想听听第四幕。 I wanted to just hear act four.
[全部笑]。 [all laughing]
去吧，约翰。 Go, John.
我们真的要回到新赛季了。 We're really gonna come back to the new season,
把每个人的故事都放在哪里。 picking up where everyone's story was.
换句话说，我们会找到布伦南。 In other words, we're gonna find Brennan–
这里到处都是破坏者，我说话有点犹豫。 This is full of spoilers; I'm a little hesitant to speak.
不要犹豫。您先请。别担心破坏者。 Don't hesitate. Go ahead. Don't worry about the spoilers.
等我们..。 This is gonna come out after we...
这是一份丰富的剧透。 It's a rich stew of spoilers.
[笑声]。 [laughter]
布伦南还在逃跑。 So, uh, Brennan is on the run still
和她女儿克里斯汀。 with her daughter Christine.
布斯不知道布伦南在哪。 Um, booth doesn't know where Brennan is.
他在找她。所以我们要继续...。 He is looking for her. So we're gonna pick up on ...
百分之九十九的观众，他们不知道我的名字。 [Hanson] 99% of the audience, they don't know my name.
他们甚至不知道有人写它。 They don't know that people write it, even.
我是说，我父亲有一次在片场，嗯..。 I mean, my father was on set once and, um...
自从他们制作电视以来，我爸爸就一直看电视--他喜欢看。 My dad has watched TV since they made TV – he loves it.
他第一次在电视上看到我的名字，就哭了起来。 First time he saw my name on TV, he had a little weep.
而且他是个伐木工。他不是个爱哭的人。 And he's a logger. He's not a weepy guy.
他站在那里看着艾米莉说她中的一个，你知道的。 He was standing watching Emily say one of her, you know,
关于骨头的科学东西，我写过的东西。 scientific things about the bones, something I'd written.
他转向我说， And he turned to me and said,
“哇，她是怎么想到这些东西的？” "Wow, how does she come up with that stuff?"
然后我想，“那是我爸爸。” And I thought, "That's my dad."
那是，九-那是观众。那些人。 That's, nine– That's the audience. Those people
他们不知道汤是怎么做的。 who don't know how the soup is made.
嗯，还有一个小的...呃，一个很小的，呃，部分。 Um, and then there's a small... uh, a very small, uh, portion
认为自己知道汤是怎么煮出来的观众。 of the audience that thinks they know how the soup is made
给你建议放多少盐。 and... give you advice on how much salt to put in.
而且我认为他们应该被忽视，因为他们不是。 And I think they should be ignored, because they're not–
并不是说他们很笨，或者什么的。 Not that they're stupid or anything.
其中有些人很愚蠢。 Some of them are stupid.
其中一些非常非常聪明。 Some of them are very, very smart.
但这些问题应该被忽视。 But they should be ignored
因为他们不是你的听众。 because they're not your audience.
一旦整个故事写下来。 Once the whole story is written down,
我们将谈谈个人故事是什么。 we'll talk about what the personal stories are.
然后我们试着把它们组合成一个轮廓。 Then we try and smoosh those together into an outline.
一般来说，作者--无论作者是谁-。 And generally, the writer – whoever the writer is –
写大纲。 will, uh, write the outline.
它把每一幕都分解成场景， It's breaking down each act into scenes,
给你一个简短的描述。 and just giving you a short description
每个场景都是什么。 of what each scene is.
这样你就能知道这些行为的结局是什么。 Just so you know what the end of the acts are
以及每一幕中发生的事情。 and what happens in each act.
网络和演播室应该说，“好吧，我们走。” It's for the network and the studio to say, "Okay, let's go."
这样，我们都或多或少地达成了一致。 And so that we're all on more or less the same page.
然后我们去起草草案。 And then it's off to drafts we go,
而它只是经历了同样的，呃，过程。 and it just goes through the same, uh, process.
事实是，有很多人可以写。 The truth is, there are a lot of people who can write
以非常独特的声音。 with a very distinctive voice
谁会是绝对可悲的失败者， who would be absolute abject failures as showrunners,
因为当你创作电视时。 because when you're creating television,
你在努力创造一些独特的东西，然后去做。 you're trying to create something unique and do it
以一定数额的钱。 for a certain amount of money
并且在一定的时间内。 and within a certain period of time.
而当你把这两个复杂的因素。 And when you throw in those two complicating factors,
你真的把真正的演员分开了。 you really separate the real showrunners
伟大的作家。 from the great writers.
我的房间对作家的哲学一直是。 [Whedon] The philosophy of my room for the writers has always been
爱上瞬间，而不是行动。 fall in love with moments, not moves.
一个动作是，“哦，天啊，是他的邪恶双胞胎。” A move is, "Oh, my god, it was his evil twin."
邪恶的双胞胎什么也没给你。 Evil twin gives you nothing,
嗯，除非有一些非常相关的事情。 um, unless there is some extremely relatable thing
每个人都经历过一个邪恶的孪生兄弟。 that everybody has gone through in regards to an evil twin
你可以我的，那是你的时刻。 that you can mine, and that's your moment.
我们会不惜一切代价保护时刻。 Um, we will protect moments at all costs.
我将在心跳中放弃一个好的动作。 I will give up a good move in a heartbeat.
非常困难。 It's very hard.
大多数作家都是被教导的，只要坚持下去就行了。 Most writers are taught, just keep it going
一直到最后。 till you get to the end.
哇，我们又熬过了一次。 Whew, we got through another one.
然后在仓库开枪。 And then shootout at the warehouse.
还有呃..。相信我，我已经尽了我的一份力量。 And, uh... And believe me, I've done my share
仓库的枪战，我很遗憾地说。 of shootouts at warehouses, I'm sorry to say.
每个节目都需要有一个独立的意图。 Every show needs to have a separate intent.
我们需要看什么，大电影的时刻是什么， What do we need to see, what is the big movie moment,
不管是情感上的，还是有趣的。 whether it's emotional, whether it's funny,
不管是行动..。那是什么东西？ whether it's action... What's that thing
我们正准备这样做，你知道， we're leading up to that, that, you know,
击中你的心？ that hits you in the heart?
我的剧作家和工作人员，他们是我的家人。 The writers of my shows and staffs, they're my families.
你想让他们成为合作伙伴而不仅仅是，呃，抄写员。 You want them to be partners and not just, uh, scribes.
坦白地说，如果你幸运的话，你可以，呃，迈出每一步。 Frankly, if you're lucky, you get to, uh, take each step
一路走来，我从助理到编剧。 along the way, and I did from assistant to staff writer.
然后你会有一个故事编辑。 And then you get a story editor.
然后是执行故事编辑和联合制片人。 And then executive story editor and co-producer
监督制片人和合作伙伴然后呢。 and supervising producer and co-EP and then, uh,
执行制片人，如果你有节目的话，再来表演。 executive producer, and then showrunner if you get a show.
对我来说，每一步都很重要。 Uh, for me, every one of those steps, uh, is important.
你学到了新东西。 You learn something new,
责任变得更大了。 and the responsibilities get a little bit greater.
♪♪
戴夫？科布，作家助理。 Dave Cobb, writer's assistant.
托德·赫尔宾，故事编辑。 Todd Helbing, story editor.
亚伦·赫尔宾，故事编辑。 Aaron Helbing, story editor.
米莎·格林，故事编辑。 Misha Green, story editor.
布伦特·弗莱彻，联合制片人.。 Brent Fletcher, co-producer.
杰德..。[笑]。 Jed... [laughing]
[全部笑]。 [all laughing]
JedWhedon，联合制片人.。 Jed Whedon, co-producer.
关于这间屋子，我最喜欢的是没有什么权力游戏。 What I love about this room is that there's no power plays.
没有人想超越别人。 There's no– Nobody's trying to get over anybody else.
我看过一些很清楚的节目。 I've been on shows where it's very clear that there was.
我是国王，别忘了。 I am the king, let's not forget that.
除此之外，人人平等。 But besides that, everybody's equal.
每个人--我和小国王都不会提出异议。 Everybody– Me and the little king will broach no dissent.
当我从加州大学洛杉矶分校毕业时，我想， When I graduated from UCLA, I thought,
好的，六个月到一年，我会，你知道。 okay, six months to a year, I'll, you know,
让我的职业生涯继续，并破门而入。 get my career going and break in.
在那期间，我找到了一份工作。 And during that time, I got a job
作为一名英语第二语言教师。 as a English as a second language teacher
在范纽斯的一所日本学校。 at a Japanese school in Van Nuys.
但是我想，你知道，六个月到一年。 But I thought, you know, six months to a year.
六年半之后，我不能被逮捕。 Six and a half years later, I could not get arrested.
呃，我所做的一切，呃，什么都没发生。 Um, everything I tried, uh, nothing happened.
我们将在22号之前把整个大纲分发给大家。 We'll get, uh, the full outline by the 22nd out to everybody.
不管有没有笔记。 Um, notes or no notes,
23号我想把剧本发给你。 I wanna send you out the script on the 23rd.
最后一集的游戏结束了。 And then we are in the end game of the final episode.
我相信一切都会好起来的。 I'm sure everything will be great.
他们会喜欢的。 They'll love it.
我33岁，才有我的第一份专业写作工作。 I was 33 before I had my first professional writing job.
这部青少年色情喜剧经过了四个赛季， After four seasons on this teen sex comedy,
我非常想进入主流网络。 I was desperate to get into, like, mainstream network.
当时我在电视上拍了我最喜欢的节目， I took my favorite show on TV at the time,
“吸血鬼杀手”，和我写了一个规范。 Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and I wrote a spec.
落入乔斯·惠登人民之手。 That got into Joss Whedon's people's hands,
接下来的八个星期我都在嚼我的指甲。 and I spent the next, I think, eight weeks chewing my nails.
后来我终于接到一个电话。 And then I finally got a call
乔斯·惠登想见你。 that Joss Whedon wants to see you.
那时我觉得我的职业生涯真的开始了。 That was when I felt like my career has really started.
在黑暗的日子里，我会想到。 During the dark days, the thought would pass my mind
放弃但说实话。 about giving up, but honestly,
这是我唯一真正感兴趣的事情。 it was the only thing I felt really passionate about.
这是我唯一能做得很好的事情。 It was the only thing that I thought I could do really well.
主要职务说明的一部分。 Part of the main job description
在作家的房间里。 in the writer's room is,
你是那个必须进来对每个人大打出手的人。 you're the guy that has to come in and shit on everybody,
其实我讨厌这样做..。 which I actually hate doing...
但是非常擅长。 But are very good at.
嗯，你知道，我试着。 Uh, well, you know, I try,
我试着用眨眼和微笑来做。 I try to do it with a wink and a smile.
其中一件事，我看到了可怕的错误。 One of the things that I've seen go horribly awry
与其他节目是不做决定。 with other shows is to not make a decision.
呃你得做个决定。不管是好是坏。 Um, you need to make a decision. Whether it's good,
不管是坏是坏，每个人都同意。 whether it's bad, whether everybody agrees with it.
你得做个决定。 You gotta make a decision.
有两种方法。 There are two approaches
我认为你在看电视时必须小心。 I think you have to be careful about when you do TV.
其一是，不知道你的节目会走向何方。 One is, to not know it all where your show is gonna go.
然后，我会说另一件令人担忧的事。 And then, I would say the other worrisome thing
是真的认为你知道你的节目会走向何方。 is to really think you do know where your show is gonna go.
我的意思是，有一些节目他们去了哪里， What I mean by that is, there are some shows where they go,
“我们有一个五年计划.。 "We have a five-year plan.
我们完全知道会发生什么。“。 We know exactly what's gonna happen."
嗯，我一直怀疑。 Well, I'm always suspicious of that,
因为这些想法真的很难想出来， because these ideas are really hard to come up with,
如果你想出了五时的点子。 and if you come up with five seasons' worth of ideas
在过去的两个月里，我猜。 in the last two months, then my guess is,
它们不是世界上最伟大的想法， they aren't the greatest ideas in the world,
因为，我知道我做过的节目。 because, I know the shows I've worked on,
我们花了很长时间才解决它。 it's taken us a lot longer to work it out.
同时，如果你没有任何计划， At the same time, if you don't have any plan at all,
而你只有一个试播。 and you've got a pilot
这使电视成为一个娱乐的时刻。 that makes an entertaining hour of television
但你不知道它的走向。 but you don't really know where it leads
到了哪里。 and where it goes to,
我认为你会有大麻烦的。 I think you're gonna be in big trouble.
我的工作，当我制作一个我没有创作的节目时， My job, when I'm producing a show that I haven't created,
就是帮助创作者和节目运作人完成他们的工作。 is to help the creator and the showrunners do their job.
但是像约拿·诺兰这样的人，创造了感兴趣的人，。 But people like Jonah Nolan who created Person of Interest,
曾在电影中做过如此令人难以置信的工作的人。 someone who had done such incredible work in film
她非常想以电视剧的形式讲述这个故事， and was just dying to tell the story as a TV series,
和格雷格·普拉格曼一起。 and along with Greg Plageman,
做一个出色的工作运行该系列。 do an extraordinary job running that series.
我的工作是在他们需要的时候支持他们。 My job is to really kind of support them in what they need.
所以，与其成为一个给他们打电话的人。 So, rather than being someone who sort of calls them
然后突然开始强制执行任务，你知道， and starts to mandate stuff out of the blue, you know,
我宁愿做一个在那里的人。 I would much rather be someone who is there
当他们需要我在场的时候。 when they need me to be there,
但不是想把想法强加给他们的人。 but not someone who is trying to impose ideas on them,
因为真的，这是他们的节目。 because really, it's their show.
我的一个节目运作人朋友问我。 A showrunner friend of mine who asked me
当初我在做节目的时候。 when I was pitching the show in the first place,
他说，“是的，第六集是什么？” he's like, "Yeah, what's episode six?"
这是个大问题：比如，你有特许经营权吗？ That was the big question: like, do you have a franchise?
这个节目有什么经得起考验的吗？ Is there an idea that's durable with the show?
而且我认为你和我必须产生。 And I think you and I had to generate–
我们当时在纽约...试播是个该死的灾难。 We were in New York... and the pilot was a fucking disaster.
我的意思是，从前到后，从一开始， I mean, front to back, across the board,
只是，你知道。 it was just, you know,
任何可能出错的事情都会出错。 anything that could go wrong went wrong.
你们想了什么？ What did you guys come up with?
你是什么，你是什么..。 What are you, what are you...
乔纳森·诺兰]更大的问题是，你能。 Jonathan Nolan] The larger question of, are you gonna be able
讲述一周的故事和更大的故事。 to tell a story of the week and a bigger story.
对我来说，第七集回答了这个问题。 For me, it was answered in episode seven.
我认为这是本赛季我们的决定性时刻。 I think that was the defining moment for us in the season.
我们要说，我们他妈会觉得无聊的。 We're coming to it saying, we're gonna get fucking bored
如果每周都是这样的话。 if it's just gonna be this every week.
那不是我们签约的目的，那不是我们想要的。 That's not what we signed on for, that's not what we wanted.
只有这样，人们才能真正感受到这场表演。 And the only way for people to really feel like the show
有什么利害关系是我们的人输了。 has any stakes is for our guys to lose,
让我们的人搞砸了。 for our guys to fuck it up.
..一个独立的...。 ... between a stand-alone ...
有一些阻力，但没有胜利。 There was some resistance to it, but there was no win
在表演结束时。 at the end of the show,
这是网络的大事。就像...。 which is the network's big thing. It's like, well...
我们的人输了。-这是一个众所周知的目标.。 our guy lost. - It's a known goal.
是的，但这次的转折太棒了。 Yeah. But the twist was so great,
这就把监事会弄得落花流水。 and that threw down the gauntlet
并说我们将是这样的表演。 and said that's the kind of show we're gonna be.
这是我们最接近于创造性的争论。 And that was the closest we had to sort of a creative argument
有了网络--不要离开学校。 with the network – not to talk out of school.
[马修·卡纳汉]我认为我们在试播方面取得了成功。 [Matthew Carnahan] I think we were successful in the pilot
制造出我们想要的东西。 in making exactly what we wanted.
你知道，我们做了一件非常有趣的事。 You know, we made a thing that's really funny,
非常邪恶非常肮脏。 really wicked, really filthy,
并成功地挥杆。 and managed to take a good swing
在我们做金融服务的时候。 at the financial services business while we did it,
非常有趣。 which was really fun.
如果我能在演出中保持这种平衡。 If I could keep that kind of balance going within the show
而不是每次都去看“公安条例”的笑话。 and not just go for the poo jokes every time –
虽然，爱一个好的便便笑话。 although, love a good poo joke –
那我们就赢了。 then we'll have won.
我们还没有带任何剧本来。 We haven't brought any scripts in yet.
昨天我们带来了我们的第一个纲要。 We're just bringing– We brought our first outline in yesterday,
那是凯伦的，太棒了。 which was Karen's, which was amazing.
我们正在制作第七集，所以你想要继续...。 We're working on episode seven so you wanna just keep, uh...
[卡纳汉]一个人有很高的期望。 [Carnahan] One has high hopes.
我想做一件伟大的作品。 I wanna make a great piece of work.
嗯，我能不能做到，我不知道。 Um, whether I can accomplish that, I have no idea.
马特·卡纳汉有很强的语言意识。 Matt Carnahan has a great sense of language.
我喜欢亵渎和灵魂的结合。 I like the combination of profane and soulfulness.
它有讽刺美国商业的成分。 It had elements of satire about American business
那种感觉就像是喜剧的独特领域。 that sort of felt like unique territory for comedy.
我们所有的节目都略有不同。 All of our shows run slightly differently.
尼尔·乔丹(NeilJordan)编写了几乎所有的Borgias脚本。。 Neil Jordan writes almost all the scripts of The Borgias.
汤姆·卡皮诺斯写了加州的所有剧本。。 Tom Kapinos writes all the scripts of Californication.
事实上，我认为“谎言之家”仍然在定义自己。 I think, in truth, House of Lies is still defining itself.
它更传统地运行。 It's run more traditionally
和一名表演员还有一名写作人员。 with a showrunner and a writing staff.
是的，工作保障是我们职业生涯中的一大亮点。 Yeah, job security is a punch line in our profession.
我们的整个福祉都处于危险之中.。 Our entire well-being is in jeopardy.
我们没有白板。 We don't own the white boards.
他们明天就能把他们赶出去。 You know, they can cart 'em off tomorrow.
[全部笑]。 [all laughing]
我没有真正的职业生涯规划，我只是。 I had no real career path planned out, I was just–
我的职业策略是。 My career strategy was,
如果你给我一份工作，我就接受。 if you offered me a job, I would take it.
看看我的简历，你就会发现我的简历到处都是。 So you look at my résumé, and it's just all over the place.
我认为你不知道我在做什么。 I don't think you could figure out what I was doing.
对我来说那真是一场艰难的演出。 That was a really tough show for me.
那不是我的世界，也不是我的环境。 That is not my world, not my milieu.
我写了三篇，我认为， I wrote three of them, and I think, consistently,
他们就像这个系列中评分最低的粉丝， they are like the lowest rated fan favorites in the series,
而且我完全...你知道的，我是自愿的。我只是。 and I totally... you know, I cop to that freely. I just–
是的，我不该写那个节目。 Yeah, I should not have been writing that show.
大卫试图给我们作为作家留下深刻印象的主要原因。 The main thing that David tried to impress upon us as writers
一直都很有趣。 was to always be entertaining.
实际上，我在自己的作家房间里有一个标志。 I actually have a sign in my own writer's room
那只是说，“要有娱乐性。” that just says, "be entertaining."
所以，如果你想到的黑道，。 So, if you think about The Sopranos,
很有趣，很暴力，有很棒的音乐， it was funny, it was violent, there was great music,
行动起来了，那里发生了很多事情。 there was action, there was just a lot going on there.
有些事你会永远记住的，你知道的。 Something that you'd just always keep in mind, you know,
首先，你在做电视节目。 first and foremost, you're putting on a television show.
不管我在职业生涯中做了什么。 No matter what else I do in my career,
这将是我比较其他一切的经验。 that will be the experience that I compare everything else to.
摩尔：我开始和这个女孩约会。 [Moore] I started dating this girl
曾在“星际迷航：下一代”工作的人。。 who worked at Star Trek: The Next Generation.
然后她说呃你知道的。 And she said, uh, you know,
可能我可以带你参观一下布景。 I could probably get you a tour of the sets.
回想起来，那是我职业生涯的关键时刻， Turns, in retrospect, that that was the key moment of my career,
因为我刚决定到底怎么回事。 because I just decided, what the hell,
我要写一个名为“结合”的规范脚本。 I'm gonna write a spec script called "The Bonding."
有个年轻人在给我巡回演出。 There was this young man who was giving me the tour,
然后我骗他看了。 and I conned him into reading it,
结果他很喜欢。 and it turned out, he liked it.
而他是吉恩·罗登贝里的助手之一。 And he was one of Gene Roddenberry's assistants.
然后他把它给了已故的迈克尔·皮勒，他买了它。 And he gave it to the late Michael Piller, who bought it.
然后有一天我接到电话，说。 And then I got this call one day, just saying,
“我需要一位编剧。明天你能开始工作吗？“。 "I need a staff writer. Can you start working tomorrow?"
然后我说“是的”然后出现了然后..。 And I said, "yes," and showed up and...
我在那里待了十年。 I was there ten years.
“星际迷航”，。 When I started at Star Trek,
这真的是一个毕生梦想的实现。 it really was the fulfillment of a lifelong dream.
小时候我是个非常严肃的特雷基。 I was a very serious Trekkie as a kid.
我喜欢那个老节目。 I loved the old show.
然后我杀了柯克。 And then I killed Kirk.
我与人合著<我>几代<我>，杀了我的童年英雄。 I co-wrote Generations and killed my childhood hero.
我的意思是，我真的杀了我的童年英雄。 I mean, I literally killed my childhood hero.
写的时候我哭了。 I wept when I wrote it.
当我想到它的时候，它仍然感动着我。 It still moves me when I think about it.
我不认识其他有这种经历的人。 I don't know anyone else who has that experience.
我不知道如何理解它，理解它的含义。 I don't know how to take it in and understand what it means
为了我的生活，它对我的描述，你知道，什么..。 for my life, what it says about me, you know, what...
它给我的灵魂带来了怎样的洞察力。 what insight it gives into my soul.
要知道。这是...。这是一次独特的经历。 You know. It's a... It's a unique experience
我不知道该怎么处理。 that I don't quite know what to do with.
珍妮特塔马罗]我从来没有想过我会写电视。 [Janet Tamaro] I never thought I'd be writing television.
什么是我喜欢的新闻，是什么吸引了我。 What I loved about journalism, what drew me to it
最终是什么让我对此感到厌恶。 is eventually what repelled me from it.
关于报道真实事件， What got to me about covering real events is,
地板上的尸体不会再爬起来。 that body on the floor doesn't get back up.
而且它必须是无情的。 And it got to be relentless
而且...非常令人不安。 and... and really profoundly disturbing.
1977年10月...。 In October of 1977 ...
我在做第三次学校枪击案。 I was doing a third school shooting,
而我就在这一刻离开了。 and I just had this moment where I walked away,
我只是想，我不能再这样做了。 and I just thought, I can't do this anymore.
你说你为射杀拉里·弗林特而哭泣。。 You said that you cried about shooting Larry Flynt.
那一刻，我想， And that was the moment I thought,
那我的生活该怎么办？ well, then what the hell am I gonna do with my life?
但是第一个剧本。 But with that very first script,
就像一个全新的世界为我打开了，我想， it was like a whole new world opened up for me and I thought,
我开始虚构我所看到的所有这些事情。 I get to fictionalize all these things that I've seen.
从洛杉矶现场直播，。 Reporting live from Los Angeles,
我是美国广播公司新闻的珍妮特塔马罗。。 I'm Janet Tamaro for ABC News.
作为一部前喜剧，我认为那部喜剧。 [Mike Royce] As a former standup comic, I think that comedy
比戏剧更难--我就说吧。 is harder than drama – I'll just say it.
你知道，当你写作的时候，就像八个小时。 You know, when you're writing, it's like eight hours
在一个洞里，然后，哦，哦，哦，我们开始了，你知道吗？ of being in a hole and then, oh, oh, oh, here we go, you know?
有时候有几天。 I mean, sometimes there's days of,
哦，好的，很好，你知道吗？ oh, all right, great, you know?
但是有时候， But sometimes there's days of, like,
我不知道，伙计。我只是不知道。 I don't know, man. I just don't know.
什么都没发生。知道吗？这太可怕了。 Nothing is happening. You know? This is horrible.
而且这似乎并不重要。 And it seems to not matter
多久你能克服一个写作问题。 how often you can conquer a writing problem.
下次有写作问题时。 The next time there's a writing problem,
就会变成那个会杀了你的人。 that becomes the one that will kill you.
写完之后。 When you're done with writing,
你有“我棒极了”的感觉。 you have the "I'm awesome" feeling.
看看我做了什么。天哪。 Look at what I did. Oh, my god.
当然，我也有过。 Of course, I've had that
写完之后，比如，一封单行邮件.。 after writing, like, a one-line email, too.
“哇，那太简单了。哇，哇，干得好。“。 "Wow, that was pithy. Whew, wow, nice work."
比尔普拉迪]我认为喜剧带来的挑战。 [Bill Prady] I think the challenge that comedy presents
那出戏并不是。 that drama doesn't
就是把人们带入荒谬的境地。 is moving people into ridiculous situations.
我们在房间里的俚语是，你必须结束。 Our slang in the room is, you have to close
所有其他的门，使唯一的门可用。 all the other doors so that the only door available
对这个角色来说，就是门。 to this character is the door
这就引出了你想要演的大片喜剧， that leads to the big block comedy scene you wanna do,
而且这很难。 and that's difficult.
你写的剧集越多。 The more episodes you write,
你讲的故事越多，你就不能再讲了。 the more stories you've told and can't tell again.
随着每一集的发生，这变得越来越难。 And that becomes harder with every episode.
第二集比第一集难， It's harder on the second episode than on the first,
第三次比第二次难。 harder on the third than the second.
但这一集的故事讲述并没有改变。 But the storytelling within the episode doesn't change.
你必须到观众会说， You have to get to the point where the audience would say,
“”你知道吗？ "You know what?
“如果我处于那种情况。 "If I were in that situation,
该死，如果我不做同样的事的话。“。 damn it, if I wouldn't do the exact same thing."
[例]这个节目是由事实产生的。 [John Rogers] The show was really born of the fact
那次普通的抢劫表明，我觉得。 that common heist shows, I felt,
没有做他们应该做的事。 weren't doing what they were supposed to do,
就是给你魔术。 which is to give you the magic trick.
他们被高度连载。 They were being highly serialized.
克里斯说的是罗克福德文件。 Chris was talking about Rockford files. Yeah.
像Rockford Files这样的节目在哪里？ And where were the shows like Rockford Files
那是一部好的、聪明的、犯罪剧。 that was good, smart, crime drama
和你爸一起看？ that you could watch with your dad?
对，而且好像有很多节目。 Right, and it seemed like there were a lot of shows
播出连环杀手的故事。 about serial killers on the air.
可能还有更多的连环杀手被抓获。 Probably more serial killers have been captured
在网络电视上比以往任何时候都存在。-一季之内。 on network television than ever existed. - In one season.
一季之内。是的，有。 In one season. Yeah, there is–
就美国而言， As far as America is concerned,
衣冠楚楚的白人孤独者在街上游荡， scraggly white loners are roaming the streets,
掉下巴洛克式的线索小径。 uh, dropping baroque clue paths
在私家侦探的道路上。 in the path of private investigators.
与我的一些朋友交谈。 Talking to some of my friends
写在更传统的程序上， who write on more traditional procedurals,
一旦他们有了一个竞技场。 once they have an arena where they're gonna be –
是马戏团的谋杀案。 it's a murder at a circus,
这是，你知道，在一家微芯片工厂的谋杀。 it's a, you know, murder at a microchip plant –
他们在天堂。但是它正在寻找一条新的线索之路。 they're in heaven. But it's finding a new clue path
他们以前没有做过的事。 that they haven't done before,
这就是他们大部分时间花在的地方。 that's what they spend the bulk of their time on.
对我们来说，线索是这些...是抢劫。 And for us, the clue path is these... is the heist.
和骗子。-是的.还有犯人.。 And the con. - Yeah. And the con.
我和一位前联邦调查局探员共进午餐。 I had lunch with an ex-FBI agent
我们在挣扎着，呃， and we were struggling with, uh,
本周我们要偷什么？ what are we stealing this week?
这是一种无休止的斗争。 This is sort of the endless struggle.
他说：“嗯，你知道，你听说过。 He said, um, "Uh, well, you know, you hear about
“离心机制造核的校准重量， "calibration weights for centrifuges to make nuclear,
制造核武器？“。 uh, to make nuclear weapons?"
然后我说“我想吻你的嘴” And I was like, "I wanna kiss you on the mouth."
[笑]。 [laughing]
如果你现在没有武器，我会吻你的嘴。 If you weren't armed right now, I would kiss you on the mouth.
你是说，这么大的一个小小的重量。 You're telling me that a tiny weight this big
能够校准离心机制造核武器。 could calibrate a centrifuge to make nuclear weapons
对于一个无赖国家，你必须偷这个小东西？ for a rogue state and you have to steal this tiny item?
那是你放进皮带袋的东西的大小。 That's the size of something you put in a belt pouch
在天花板上翻滚的人。 on someone who is rappelling through a ceiling.
太完美了！ That's perfect!
塔马罗]有人说，这是从哪里来的？ [Tamaro] Somebody said, where did this come from?
你为什么要做这个节目？ Why did you wanna do this show?
我想，嗯，我不想做一个改编， I thought about, well, I didn't wanna do an adaptation,
这是一种适应。 and it's an adaptation.
我真的不想做一个程序，这是一个程序。 I really didn't wanna do a procedural, it's a procedural.
我真的不想做一个神秘的事，它是一个神秘的事。 I really didn't wanna do a mystery, it's a mystery.
我知道我想做幽默，因为我喜欢幽默。 I knew I wanted to do humor because I like to be funny.
希望我很有趣。 I hope I am funny,
我希望我不是唯一一个嘲笑我的笑话的人。 I hope I'm not the only one laughing at my jokes.
但我认为这对我来说是一个深层次的意义。 But I think what it was about for me on a deep level
这就是为什么作家会选择。 and this is where... why writers pick stuff that,
对此，他们作出了回应。 that, that they respond to.
我有..。16年来我最好的朋友。 I had... My best friend of 16 years
在一次事故中死亡。 had been killed in a, in a, in an accident.
[呼气]。 [exhaling]
面试官]如果你不想去...。 [interviewer] If you don't wanna go there...
有趣的是，我不去看节目，嗯...。 You know, it's funny, I don't go there on the show, um...
但我知道。 But I do.
这两个女人之间的关系。 This relationship between these two women
真正与众不同的人在某些方面。 who were really different was in some ways
和我最好的朋友的关系。 my relationship with my best friend.
你知道，这...可怕的是，嗯。 And you know, it's... it's horrendously awful that, um,
你知道，我的生活，我的个人悲剧成为燃料。 you know, my life, my personal tragedy became fuel
对于这个节目，但我认为这就是作家的遭遇， for this show, but I think that's what happens to writers,
所以我认为没有人愿意结婚。 and I think that's why nobody wants to be married
或与作家有关。 or related to a writer,
呃，即使是电视或者电影作家， uh, even a television or film writer,
因为事实上你的生活。 because your life does, in fact,
告知你的写作方式。 inform the kind of writing that you do.
迈克尔·赖特]在这部纪录片中可能会有很多争论， [Michael Wright] This might be much debated in this documentary,
但我确实认为，优秀的创意经理确实能。 but I do think that good creative executives do make
重要的创造性贡献。 an important creative contribution
敬演出的成功。 to the successes of the show.
不是告诉别人怎么写。 It's not about telling somebody how to write it.
就是给他们好的建议。 It's about giving them good counsel.
我倾向于直接工作。我有很多意见。 I tend to work very directly. I have a lot of opinions
而我觉得...很有趣。 and feelings of what I think is... is interesting,
我觉得无聊，我觉得新鲜。 what I think is boring, what I think is, uh, fresh,
我认为以前已经做过的事，我会把它传达给大家。 what I think has been done before, and I communicate it.
非常清楚。这是他们的表演。 I'm very clear. It's their show,
而且我倾向于赢得预算战。 and I tend to win the budget wars,
他们赢得了创造性的战争。 they win the creative wars.
在我们没有节目的地方没有节目。 There's no show that goes on our air where we don't have
编剧、节目运作人、。 general consensus between the writer, showrunner,
主角和网络。 the lead actors, and the network.
如果没有共识。 When there's not consensus,
那是你做烂电视的时候。 that's when you make crappy television.
[颤振]。 [chatter]
[导演]开始！ [director] Action!
[罗杰斯]我们对年轻作家的批评。 [Rogers] The thing we kind of beat into the young writers
开始的时候是，这是你要死的山吗？ when they start is, is this the hill you're gonna die on?
因为这是你唯一的论点。 Because this argument you have is the only one
你会有机会赢的。 you're ever gonna have a shot at winning,
一定要确定是那个人，因为在那之后，你知道。 so make sure it's the one, because after that, you know,
如果你开始在每一件事上和他们战斗。 if you just start fighting 'em on every single thing,
你成了房间里的问题。 you become the problem in the room.
然后他们开支票付账单。 And they write the checks and they pay the bills.
顺便说一句，有时候根本没有办法。 And by the way, sometimes there's no way
来摆脱它。对。 to get out of it. Right.
而有时候你想死在山上。 And sometimes it is the hill you wanna die on.
我是说，如果这段插曲真的是关于。 I mean, if that's really what the episode is about,
并记下。 and to take the note
会破坏一切你知道..。 is gonna undermine everything, you know...
没有山。 Don't not have a hill.
是的，是的，是的，你想要一座山。 Yeah, yeah, yeah, you wanna have a hill.
你想要点正直。 You wanna have some integrity,
但要确保是小山，是的。 but make sure it's the hill, yeah.
做，是各种各样的事情。 Working on Dirt was all kinds of things.
这是一次艰难的经历。 It was a difficult experience.
这是一次启发性的经历。 It was an enlightening experience
因为考特尼的性格。 because Courtney's character
写剧本的时候都没有。 wasn't even in the script when I wrote it.
电视网真的想要一个女性驱动的系列。 The network really wanted a female-driven series
所以我为考特尼创造了这个角色。 so I created this character for Courtney.
[呼气]。 [exhaling]
嗯...在某种程度上，我最初的，我最初的愿景。 Um... So in a way, my initial, my original vision
从我说“好”的时候起就妥协了。 was compromised from the time I said okay.
简单的事情，好吧，我来做。 Something as simple as going, okay, I'll do that.
从那以后，它恶化了。 And from there, it deteriorated.
这很有挑战性，约翰·兰格拉夫和我，FX的负责人， It was challenging, and John Landgraf and I, the head of FX,
我们去了。我们真的很挣扎。 we went at it. We really struggled.
而且是..。那真是个..。最终。 And it was... It was a really... It was ultimately
难以置信的困难。 an incredibly difficult
并真正奖励创新过程。 and really rewarding creative process.
我觉得我要做的试播非常酷。 I feel like the pilot I got to make was amazingly cool.
第一个赛季我要做的是真的很酷。 The first season I got to make was really cool.
第二季，他只是说这是我们要做的。 The second season, he just said this is what we're gonna do.
而且我觉得这不太好。 And I felt like it wasn't so good.
我从来没有看过第二季的。 I've never seen the second season of Dirt,
呃，我也不想。 uh, nor do I want to.
我可能已经公开反对这种行为。 I've probably spoken out against the behavior
网络中的高层人物。 of the people at the top in the networks
在我的职业生涯中有两三次。 two or three times in my career,
现在我发现最近我有了名声。 and now I find recently that I have a reputation.
我有点暴躁，而且我很坚持。 I've gotten a little bit shirty and I've gotten insistent
而且我已经划定了界限。 and I've drawn the line.
但一旦你忘记了执行人员，你就站不起来了。 But the moment you forget that the executive you can't stand
可能是房间里唯一一个有正确想法的人。 might be the only person in the room who has the right idea
关于如何修复一些东西，你会输的。 about how to fix something, you're gonna lose.
我认为你不需要像对待敌人那样对待任何人。 I don't think you need to treat anybody like your enemy
除非他们积极想要毁灭你。 unless they are actively trying to destroy you,
偶尔也会发生。 which occasionally does happen.
外面有这样的人。 There are those kind of people out there,
但并不多。 but there are not many.
我一直在努力。 I am and always have tried
成为一个公司的人。 to be a company man.
然而，现在我发现我是个热辣的独行侠.。 And yet, now I find that I'm this hot-headed maverick.
太神奇了，因为，你知道。 Which is amazing, because, you know,
我怕四岁的孩子。 I'm afraid of four-year-olds.
♪♪
早晨好。早晨好。 Good morning. Good morning.
[汉森]音符最糟糕的一点是在你播出之前， [Hanson] The worst point for notes is before you're on the air,
每个人都认为他们知道。 and everybody thinks they know
公众对一场表演的反应。 how the public is going to react to a show.
或者如果一个节目做得中等好， Or if a show is doing kind of middling well,
顺便说一句，这就是Bones所做的。 which is what Bones did, by the way.
它做得中等不错，这不是一个打击。 It did middling well, it was not a hit.
我们就像一根你不能杀死的杂草。 We were like a weed that you couldn't kill,
然后我们得到了一点爱，做得很好。 and then we got a little love and did quite well.
编剧会议由导演做笔记。 The writers meeting is for the director to give notes
在剧本上，嗯，说出什么有用。 on the script, um, and say what works
或者不为他和她工作所以..。 or doesn't work for him and her, so...
米兰？切洛夫]这对我也很重要， [Milan Cheylov] It's important for me too,
因为我可以在准备阶段有想法。 because I can have ideas in prep,
但我需要知道这些人...我们都在同步。 but I need to know that these guys... that we're all in sync
当我们向前推进的时候，我们继续准备，呃， as we push forward, as we continue to prep, uh,
就这些人所设想的表演而言， in terms of making the show that these guys envision,
每个人都想在一天结束时看到。 that everybody wants to see at the end of the day.
剧本现在是60页？ Uh, the script is currently 60 pages?
52-52。 - 52. - 52?
-52分钟。-52分钟。 - 52 minutes. - 52 minutes.
准备好了吗？ Oh, is it ready?
我不会碰它。我不会再矮了。 I wouldn't touch it. I wouldn't go any shorter.
首先，它不是...那么情节驱动。 First of all, it's not... so plot driven
这比我们所拥有的更多。 that this, more than any we've had,
不应该修剪那么多。 should not be trimmed that much.
星期五我收到了网络上的两条留言。 I got two notes Friday from the network
我觉得真的...很好。 which I thought were really... were good.
嗯，我并不是说听起来很惊讶。 Um, and I don't mean to sound surprised.
阿里·雷·罗伊]网络电视的一集。 [Ali LeRoi] What takes a single episode of network television
会议要持续很久才能产生成果。 so long to get produced is the meetings.
会议很多。 There's lots of meetings.
我收到的最愚蠢的一张纸条是。 The single dumbest note I've ever gotten was–
我们在做大家都讨厌克里斯。 We were doing Everybody Hates Chris,
我们有一集克里斯发烧了。 and we had an episode where Chris had gotten a fever
和流感之类的。圣诞节那天。 and a flu or something. It was at Christmas,
当时他在医院里，他在产生幻觉。 he was in the hospital, and he was hallucinating
他在和一个基本上是圣诞老人的人说话。 that he was talking to a guy who was basically Santa Claus.
便条从网络上下来， And the note came down from the network,
“圣诞老人一定要这么老吗？” "Does Santa Claus have to be so old?"
麦克·凯利]我收到的最有趣的笔记之一。 [Mike Kelley] One of the funnier notes I ever received
就在CBS接下Swingtown之后。。 was right after CBS picked up Swingtown.
然后我去参加了这次会议，莱斯，莱斯·穆恩维斯，嗯。 And I went to this meeting, and Les, Les Moonves, um –
上帝啊，如果他在看这个。 god help me, uh, if he's watching this –
“月亮报”告诉我，他，你知道，他喜欢这个节目。 Les Moonves tells me that he, you know, he loves the show.
我们几乎通过了整个会议。 And we got almost through the whole meeting.
他说：“我有一张纸条。”我说“什么” He says, "I got one note." I said, "What?"
然后他说，“我不认为邻居。 And he goes, "I don't think the neighbors
应该睡在一起“。 should sleep together."
我说，“你不认为邻居。 I said, "You don't think the neighbors
应该一起睡吗？“。 should sleep together?"
然后他说“不” And he said, "No."
“好吧，它叫斯温斯敦。” "Well, it's called Swingtown.
“是70年代的摇摆者。 "It's about swingers in the '70s.
你想让他们怎么做？“。 Like, what do you want them to do?"
他说：“嗯，这就是为什么你是作家。” He says, "Well, that's why you're the writer."
真不敢相信我再也不会在CBS工作了。 I can't believe I'll never work at CBS again.
[笑]。 [laughing]
知道吗，我有一种非常黑暗的感觉。 You know, I have a very dark sensibility.
比如，我认为可以接受的是，90%的人口。 Like, what I find acceptable, 90% of the populous
觉得不能接受。 does not find acceptable.
而我必须学会这一点。 And I've had to learn that the hard way.
所以有时候我需要有人说。 So I need somebody sometimes to say,
“嘿，老兄，太过分了。” "Hey, dude, that's too much.
“就像--那不是--不仅不是吗？” "Like, that's– That doesn't– Not only doesn't that
为这个故事服务，但太过分了，“。 serve the story, but it's just too out there,"
这样我就可以后退一步走..。所以这不是反应。 So I can take a step back and go... So it's not a reaction
比如“去你妈的”这是我的愿景。“。 like, "Fuck you. That's my vision."
就像我可以后退一步走，好吗。 It's like I can then take a step back and go, all right,
嗯，是的，也许...也许那太过分了。 well, yeah, maybe... maybe that is too much.
你知道，也许我们真的不需要看到。 You know, maybe we don't really need to see
被小丑砍下来的球。 the balls being hacked off the clown.
也许我们在脸上说出来。 Perhaps we tell it on the face.
摩尔：那个试播不去，真是令人失望。 [Moore] It was a huge disappointment that that pilot didn't go.
剧本很受欢迎， And the script was very well received,
但世界银行很困难。 but the WB was very difficult.
就在这时，他们想要。 There came this moment where they wanted
脚本的不同版本。 a different version of the script.
他们还请了另一位作家来讨论我的反对意见。 And they had brought in another writer over my objections,
这就是..。回想起来， which is... In retrospect,
真不敢相信我竟然允许这种事发生。 I can't even believe I allowed that to happen.
但那时，我还很年轻，还是我的第一个试播。 But at that point, I was very young, it was my first pilot.
现在我们离拍摄还有一周的时间。 And we were now about a week away from shooting.
剧本来了，我讨厌。太糟糕了。 And the script came in and I hated it. It was terrible.
我只是说，“我不会拍剧本。” And I just said, "I won't shoot the script."
网络说：“是的，你会的。” And so the network said, "Yes, you will."
我们有一个很大很丑的电话会议。 And we had this big, ugly conference call about it.
而且，呃，这一刻就在电话里。 And, uh, there was this moment on the call
网络上说，“如果你是这样想的话， where the network said, "Well, if that's how you feel,
那也许我们就该说再见了。“。 then maybe we should just say goodbye."
然后我意识到，这就是它，这就是现在。 And I realized, well, this is it, this is the moment.
他们会在这件事上吓唬你的。 They're gonna call your bluff on this.
然后我说，“那么，好吧，让我们这样做吧。” And I said, "Then, okay, let's do that."
然后他们说，“好吧”，然后他们挂断了电话。 And then they said, "fine," and they hung up.
然后，上百个电话。 And then, hundreds of phone calls,
好像每个人都在彼此呼唤。 like everyone's calling each other.
“真不敢相信他这么说！他不是真的认真的！“。 "I can't believe he said that! He's not really serious!"
每个人都非常非常沮丧，但我真的很认真。 Everyone was really, really upset, but I really was serious.
我本不打算拍那个剧本的。 I wasn't gonna shoot that script.
整件事都破裂了。 And, uh, the whole thing fell apart,
花费了两百万美元。 and it cost a couple million dollars and, uh,
当时是一场灾难。 it was a disaster at the time.
对我来说，这是一个巨大的失望。 It was a huge disappointment to me,
因为我非常喜欢那些书。 'cause I was very attached to those books,
我还以为我们会用这些书来伸张正义。 and I thought that we were gonna do justice by these books.
当时我的经纪人，不管他信不信。 And my agent at the time, whether he believed it or not,
说：“不，不，这个，你知道...。相信我，大家都喜欢。 said, "No, no. This, you know... Believe me, people like it
“当你说不的时候，你就会声名狼藉。” "when you say no, and you'll get a reputation
作为一个正直的人，大大大。“。 as someone who has integrity and, dah-dah-dah."
当时我选择相信。 I chose at the time to believe that.
♪♪
[诺兰]我们一直想奖励观众。 [Nolan] We always wanted to reward the viewers
一个星期又一个星期地观看，但不惩罚一个人。 who watched week to week, but not punish ones
都是新来的。 who were coming new to the show.
本周那种自成一体的故事。 That kind of self-contained story of the week
恰好排得非常非常好。 just so happens to line up really, really nicely
以程序为基础的情节犯罪。 with the kinds of procedural-based episodic crime shows
哥伦比亚广播公司知道如何做得很好。 that CBS knows how to make really well,
除此之外，我们想讲的故事。 and then beyond that, the story that we wanted to tell
这个更大的类似小说的故事是相似的吗？ is this larger novel-like story that's similar
在有线电视上蓬勃发展的节目。 to the shows that are flourishing right now on cable.
我认为网络知道，你知道。 And I think the network knows that, you know,
观众的口味在变化。 the audience's tastes are changing.
如果你把程序比作。 If you liken the procedural –
我们从来没有想过这是一个四个字母的词， which we've never thought of as a four-letter word,
我们一直都在接受他们。 we've always kind of embraced them.
长大后，我看了Magnum，P.I.和迈阿密副队。 I grew up watching Magnum, P.I. and Miami Vice
以及希尔街蓝调和所有这些惊人的节目。 and Hill Street Blues and all these amazing shows.
但是，现在正蓬勃发展的节目。 But, the shows that are flourishing right now
这些系列化的，像小说一样的电视节目.。 are these serialized novel-like shows on cable.
但是，广播总是能做到这两点。 But, broadcast was always capable of doing both.
所以，这是一种不同的方式。 So, it's a different way of doing it.
你还有大量的观众。 You still have a massive, massive audience,
远远大于有线电视看广播电视。 far bigger, uh, than cable, watching broadcast television.
我们经常有一千四百万至一千五百万人。 We regularly have 14–15 million people
观看我们的节目，使我们相形见绌。 watching our show, which dwarfs
这些有线电视节目的观众。 any of the audiences of these cable shows.
有一个汤姆和杰瑞卡通效果， There's that Tom and Jerry cartoon effect,
就像汤姆被炸药炸飞一样。 where it's like if Tom gets blown up by dynamite
然后你逐渐变黑，然后你就会出现， and then you fade to black, and then you come up,
然后他又在追杰瑞。 and then he's just chasing Jerry again,
对我来说，这不像汤姆那么有趣。 it's not as interesting to me as Tom
被炸药炸掉，现在又到了下一幕。 gets blown up by dynamite and now in the next scene
他在医院康复。 he's in the hospital rehabilitating,
找出他哪里出错了。 trying to figure out where he went wrong.
嗯，所以，你知道，我确实觉得。 Um, so, you know, I do feel like
生命是连续的，生命不是一个程序， life is serialized, life is not a procedural,
因此，这是一种讲故事的方式。 and therefore, that's the kind of storytelling
我喜欢看的，这是一种讲故事的方式。 that I like to watch, and it's the kind of storytelling
就是我喜欢写的。 that I like to write.
话虽如此，我想，嗯， That being said, I think that, um,
把节目归类为程序性节目是不公平的。 it's unfair to categorize shows as procedural
或者是串行化的，或者是一个比另一个工作得更好。 or serialized, or one working better than the other.
我认为这就是电视网喜欢做的事。 I think that that's what networks like to do.
但是，在一天结束的时候，如果你放一些酷的东西。 But, at the end of the day, if you put something cool
在他们面前，他们不在乎。 in front of them, they don't care
不管是序列化的还是过程化的。 whether it's a serialized or a procedural
或者两者兼而有之的婚姻你知道吗？ or a marriage of both, you know?
我认为现在有好妻子这样的节目。 I think there are shows like The Good Wife now
这是程序性的展示，但实际上。 that are procedural shows, but are actually
隐形连载显示，这就是为什么。 stealth serialized shows, and that's why
他们将获得艾美奖提名。 they're getting nominated for Emmys.
罗伯特？金]我们同意这有点...。 [Robert King] We would agree that it's a bit of a...
披着羊皮的狼——伪善者.。 a wolf in sheep's clothing.
我们必须满足某些因素。 There are certain elements that we have to satisfy
上CBS，是为了展示。 to be on CBS, to be show that has
一个故事，我们讲在这一集，有案例。 a story that we tell within the episode, has cases.
所以，部分原因是。 And so, it's partly that,
部分人物通过它编织。 and partly characters that weave through it.
我们不做很多只是角色的场景。 We don't do a lot of just character scenes
或者只是私人场景。 or just personal scenes,
个人倾向于参与程序阴谋。 that the personal tends to come on the procedural plot.
我们每年有23集。 We do 23 episodes a year.
其他的节目一年演出13场。 These other shows do 13 a year.
我不认为这是我们的苦痛。 I wouldn't call it bitterness on our part
我们有广播电视。广播电视非常多。 that we have towards cable. Cable is very much
“那边的草更绿。” "the grass is greener on that side."
♪♪
希望我整个职业生涯都在HBO。 I hope I'm at HBO for my entire career.
嗯，我的意思是，这是最好的地方。 Um, I mean, it's just been the best place
出于许多不同的原因，我曾经工作过。 I've ever worked, for so many different reasons.
创造性地说，这很棒。 Creatively, it's great.
理论上我可以在网络上工作。 I mean, I could theoretically work at a network.
我永远不会说永远，但我知道..。 I would never say never, but I know...
我知道这话什么意思。 I know what that means.
这是工作中最重要的事情之一。 That's one of the great things about working
HBO：他们让你做你的工作。 for HBO: they let you do your job.
你知道，这并不是说没有对话。 And you know, it's not to say there aren't conversations.
确实有，但它们从来都不是任务。 There are, but they're never mandates,
而且他们从来..。它们从来不是笔记。 and they're never... They're never notes
都是因为胆怯，害怕。 that are born of cowardice, where they're afraid
疏远他人或冒犯他人，或者你知道..。 to alienate people or offend people, or you know...
因为他们不是想卖。 Because they're not trying to sell
商业广播时间或产品。 commercial airtime or product.
所以，它的基础是，“做你能做的最好的节目。” So, it's based on, "Just do the best show you can do."
[德奈特]我们在高级广播电视上有着惊人的自由度。 [DeKnight] We have an incredible amount of freedom on premium cable.
因此，回到网络电视将是困难的。 So, going back to network television would be difficult
在创造性层面上。 on a creative level.
当然，折中之处在于钱的数量。 The tradeoff, of course, is the amount of money
在22集的节目中。 that you can make on 22 episodes of a show
在网络中是非常大的。 in network is phenomenally large.
比我在这个节目上做的要大得多。 Uh, much larger than I make on this show.
但是，我确实有那种...那种自由的味道。 But, I do have that... that taste of that freedom.
就像你在广播电视里一样自由。 As much freedom as you do have in cable
与网络相比你知道网络是..。 compared to network, you know, the network is...
你知道的，他们是我的屁股。 You know, they were up my ass
在试播过程中你知道。 during the pilot process, you know,
真的，你知道，微观管理。 and really, you know, micromanaging
几乎每一个细节。 pretty much every detail.
因为那是..。到那个时候了。 Because that's... That's the time
他们觉得自己有最多的投入，你知道吗？ that they feel like they have the most input, you know?
而且，而且，不是说..。并不是它把我搞砸了。 And, and, and not that it... Not that it fucked me up
或者迷失方向--或者让我迷失了方向。 or strayed– or made me stray off my vision.
但是，他们很忙，非常手。 But, they're very engaged and very hands on.
嗯，但好的是，一旦演出。 Um, but the good thing is that once the show
建立了，你赢得了他们的信任。 gets established and... and you earn their trust,
他们尊重这一点。 that they honor that.
不是每个季节都有土拨鼠的日子。 It's not like groundhog day every season,
就像你要再次证明自己。 like you gotta prove yourself again.
就我个人而言，我看不出有什么大的区别。 I personally don't see as big a difference
网络和广播电视之间的关系就像其他人一样。 between network and cable as other people have.
我还认为其中一些有线频道。 And I also think some of these cable channels
延续了这一神话。 have kind of perpetuated this myth that artists
在这些网络中拥有完全的自由。 have complete freedom at these networks.
然而，我和别人谈过，也听说过。 And yet, I've talked to people and heard about
这些网络的通话记录。 notes calls at these networks.
所以，我不确定这到底是怎么回事。 So, I'm not sure that's exactly it.
我认为这是一个个案的情况。 I think it's a case by case situation.
网络信任你做这份工作吗？ Does the network trust you to do the job?
如果他们这么做了，你就会得到很多自由。 If they do you're gonna get a lot of freedom.
如果他们感觉到领导上的空白， If they sense a void in leadership,
他们会冲进来填补。 they're gonna rush in to fill it,
不管是什么网络。 no matter what network it's at.
♪♪
[重叠颤振]。 [overlapping chatter]
你好。 Hello.
呃，我们会有一套...。 Uh, we're gonna have a set of, uh...
会有一个四重奏演奏。 There's gonna be a quartet playing.
钢琴大提琴小提琴中提琴。 Piano, cello, violin, viola.
一旦我们能订到他们。 Once we get the okay to book them,
那我就给你拿尺码来。 then I'll get sizes to you.
因为我们会有后援。 'Cause we'll have the stand-ins.
卡纳汉：我认为在下一集之间， [Carnahan] I think between casting the next episode,
为你拍摄的那集而设。 being on set for the episode you're shooting,
在作家的房间里。 being in the writer's room
处理预算和一切。 dealing with budgets and everything,
我想说的是，展示同样。 I would say that showrunning is as much
编舞的壮举，就像其他任何东西一样。 a feat of choreography as it is of anything else.
我有一个出色的非写作执行制片人。 I have an amazing non-writing executive producer,
杰西卡·博尔西兹基，为了理解。 Jessika Borsiczky, to just understand
管理人员、预算和热门资本。 administrating people and budgets and hot costs
以及所有这些东西。 and all of that stuff
就像我在磨光一样。 that I kind of glaze over at.
作为一个好作家的技能。 [Melvoin] The skill sets to be a good writer
做一名好经理几乎完全相反。 and to be a good manager are almost diametrically opposite.
我认为作家往往是怀疑论者，批评家。 I think writers tend to be skeptics, critics.
他们被愤怒，嗯，被好奇，被愤怒所刺激。 They're fueled by anger, um, by a curiosity, by outrage.
而当你管理的时候，你有很多不同的地方。 Whereas when you're managing, you have so many different
生产方面需要关注。 aspects of production to be concerned about.
作家是你最直接的。 The writers are your most immediate,
然后你得和演员打交道。 but then you've gotta deal with actors,
而你必须和你的主管打交道。 and you've gotta deal with your directors,
而且你还得和其他人打交道。 and you've gotta deal with everybody else.
这些技能不是天生的。 Those skills are not innate.
Steadicam，镜头前的冻结.。 Steadicam, in-camera freeze.
是的，我们要么在之前，要么在之后。 Yeah, we'll get that either right before or right after
我们得到了主人的许可。 we get the walking in master.
[梅尔沃因]当你花了很多时间试图驾驶。 [Melvoin] When you spend a lot of time just trying to steer
作为一名作家，你自己的船，现在的想法是。 your own boat as a writer, the idea now that
你必须完成所有其他任务， you have to be doing all of these other tasks,
是呃...可能是压倒性的。 is um... can be overwhelming.
一份有秩序的突破的清单， A list of the ordered breakaways,
看看我们是否在球场。 and see if we're in the ballpark.
一两个..。 One or two...
表演有这种魅力的帕蒂。 Showrunning has this kind of glamorous patina to it.
你知道，那些跑过的人输了，你知道， You know, the guys who run Lost, and you know,
似乎是一个很棒的聚会。 it sort of seems like one fabulous party
有创造力，愚弄公众。 of, you know, being creative and fooling the public,
而且，你知道，聪明。 and being, you know, brilliant.
对我来说，很多都是为了推销这个节目， For me, a lot of it is the grind of selling the show,
宣传这个节目，得到大纲的认可， pitching the show, getting the outline approved,
去看剧本，交草稿。 going to scripts, handing in a draft.
这只是他妈的苦差事，是事实。 It's just a fucking grind, is the truth.
♪♪
因为我们正在做一个时期片段， Because we're doing a period piece,
一切都呈指数级复杂化 everything is exponentially more complicated
而且耗时。 and time consuming.
呃，每个演员，每一个额外的，需要一个发型。 Uh, every actor, every extra, needs a haircut.
每套必须穿着。 Every set has to be dressed.
我的意思是说，我特别在谈论地点。 I mean, I'm talking about locations particularly.
如果你在做现代表演， If you're doing a contemporary show,
你只是拉起来拍摄。 you just pull up and shoot.
这个，我们拉起来，需要三天时间 This, we pull up, it takes three days
准备好一个简单的街景。 to get a simple street scene ready.
空调，不正确的灯，门把手。 Air conditioners, lights that aren't correct, doorknobs.
我的意思是，每一件小事都必须改变和修改。 I mean, every little thing has to be changed and fixed.
这是这个东西的范围。 This is the scope of this thing.
我们的电视时间是43分钟。 Our network hour of television is 43 minutes long.
我们的节目的一集通常在 An episode of our show is typically between
55和60分钟之间，这是日子是额外工作的日子 55 and 60 minutes, so that's days and days of extra work.
所以这一切都增加了一个更大的拍摄时间表。 So, it all adds up to a much greater shooting schedule.
[Prady]生产中有六个典型的日子 [Prady] There are six typical days in the production
的四个相机，半小时的电视喜剧。 of a four camera, half hour television comedy.
其中五个是你的五个生产日。 Five of them are your five production days.
第六个是中断。 And the sixth is a hiatus.
在一个赛季中，我们生产了24集， We produce 24 episodes in the course of a season,
我们以块为单位。 and we do them in blocks.
三块是三集， A block of three is three episodes on,
然后一周下降。 and then a week down from production.
在这几个星期，你赶上了脚本。 During those down weeks, you catch up on scripts.
你开始写脚本之前 You start writing scripts before the...
开始拍摄之前。所以，我们在八月开始拍摄 before you start shooting. So, we start shooting in August
因为9月份美国需要新的电视。 because America needs new television in September.
而为了在八月份开始拍摄， And in order to start shooting in August,
作家在六月份开始工作， the writers start working in June,
我们在四月份包装。 and we wrap in April.
而且，我认为如果你会带入科学家 And, um, I think that if you would bring in scientists
研究这个，他们会发现 to study this, they would discover
人类有足够的能量 that human beings have exactly enough energy
完成该计划的90％。 to accomplish 90% of that schedule.
而最后的10％是巴丹死亡三月 And the last 10% of it is a Bataan Death March
到包装派对 to the wrap party.
反映我的情况。对，对，对。 Mirror my situation exactly. Right, right, right.
我只是说，你和孩子结婚了。 I just mean, you are married with kids.
[电话铃声] [phone ringing]
她在这里。 There she is.
啊，狗屎[笑] Ah, shit. [laughing]
这是我的妻子告诉我我有足够的钱。 That's my wife telling me I have enough money.
[重叠的笑声，笑声] [overlapping chatter, laughter]
如果这个节目下来， If this show goes down the tubes,
你必须在某个地方生活。 you gotta make a living right away somewhere.
那是你们 That's for you guys.
因为我有很多钱，所以我不在乎。 'Cause I got a lot of money, so I don't care.
[笑声] [laughter]
那么，当我们处于这个主题的时候，我们可能不会在 Well, while we're on the subject, we might not be in
这个房间从现在起六个月，七个月了。 this room for six, seven months from now.
- 九个月。 - 是啊 - Nine– Nine months. - Yeah.
我们必须谈论这个，但是是的。 We've got to have a talk about that, but yeah.
这是一个... That is a...
我们遇到了几个网络，然后TNT ... We met with a couple networks, and then TNT...
当我们见到迈克尔·赖特 When we met with Michael Wright
和他采取的方式和他回应的方式， and the way he took to it and the way he responded to it,
我们只是觉得，你知道，这是一个很好的契合，是的。 we just felt, you know, this is a good fit, yeah.
主要是他们有他们的意见 The main thing is they... they have their opinions
有时我们不同意， and sometimes we disagree,
但是他们并没有下令。 but they don't come down with an edict.
评论家是有帮助的，因为我们得到了很好的评价。 The critics have been helpful, 'cause we got great reviews.
哦耶。第一季 Oh yeah. Season one.
那么这一季我们得到了更好的评价。 Then we got even better reviews this season.
如果没有发生，也许他们... If that doesn't happen, maybe they...
- 当然不行 - 他们把手放在那里更多，是的。 - No, of course. - They stick their hand in there more, yeah.
我可以为他说话，我可以说为什么 I can speak for him. I can say why
他一直在一个热门的电视剧，然后另一个电视剧。 he's been in a hit show, and then another show.
所以，你假设这个电视剧是一个打击。 So, you're assuming this show is a hit.
[笑声] [laughter]
有一个你生存的数字， There's a number at which you survive,
有一个你不能生存的数字。 and there's a number at which you don't survive.
嗯，你得到反馈，这叫做评级。 Um, you get feedback, it's called ratings.
我们尊重这方面的业务 We respect that aspect of the business
我们明白网络必须维护 and we understand that the network has to maintain
他们的表演必须博得一些人的眼球 a certain number of eyeballs on their show
否则你就走了。我们去一堆人 or else you're gone. We go to a bunch of people
并要求他们每周给我们几百万美元 and ask them to give us a couple million bucks a week
告诉我们精简的故事。 to tell our little pretend-y stories.
那...这个故事应该这样子做 That... The idea that they should do that
没有附加条件是非常奇怪的 with no strings attached is madness
对。你懂？ Right. You know?
是别人的钱。 It's other people's money.
某处有股东。 There's stockholders out there somewhere.
我现在不知道谁会投资于电视， I don't know who would invest in television now,
这是个可怕的主意。 that's a horrible idea.
如果你太在意收视率的事情。 If you pay too much attention to the things
完全超出你的控制范围。 that are completely out of your control,
就像他们在吹牛，在抢先抢占你。 like when they're airing you, when they're preempting you.
那天晚上有多少人看了。 How many people watched that night,
或者说，从上周开始，收视率是上升还是下降。 or whether or not it went up or down from last week.
如果你开始这么做了，那么你就开始输了。 If you start doing that, then you start losing
掌控你所能掌控的事情。 control of the things that are within your grasp.
我所能做的就是讲一个更好的故事。 All I can do is tell a better story.
很明显，如果收视率有一个明显的下降。 Obviously, if there's a clear drop-off,
那你应该看看这个。 then you should look at that.
但是，我确实看过别人的评分。 But, I do read other people's ratings.
[笑]。 [laughing]
男人做的事--女人也是， The thing that men do – women do this, too,
但我并不倾向于这样做--他们只关注收视率。 but I don't tend to do this – they focus on the number.
“收视率是多少，收视率是多少？” "What's the number gonna be, what's the number?"
然后我倒在里面，关于收视率，午夜， And I poured myself into it, about it, midnight,
我们播出的那晚，我连看都看不见。 the night that we aired, I couldn't even watch it
在广播电视上--我不该告诉任何人。 on broadcast television – I shouldn't tell anybody that.
我没有看我自己的节目。 I didn't watch my own show air.
我看过很多失败的、取消的节目。 I've been on so many failed, canceled shows.
然后我就想，“哦，上帝，请你要表现良好 And I just thought, "Oh, god, please be good enough
保持在一定收视率。 to stay on the air."
我上床睡觉了，你知道，六个小时后。 I went to bed, and you know, six hours later,
丈夫在戳我，他带着电脑， my husband is poking me and he has his computer with him,
然后他说，“我想你该起床了。” and he says, "I think you want to get out of bed."
当然，我早睡过尼尔森。 And I had, of course, slept through the early Nielsen
以及所有的电话和短信。 and all the phone calls and the texting.
然后我说：“不，我不想知道，我不想知道，” And I said, "No, I don't wanna know, I don't wanna know,"
这对我来说是非常懦弱的。 which is very cowardly of me.
然后他说：“是啊，我想你可能想知道。 And he said, "Yeah, I think you might wanna know
你是基本有线电视史上最成功的节目。“。 you're the most successful show on... in basic cable history."
然后我说：“滚，这不好笑！” And I said, "Fuck you, that's not funny!"
这对我丈夫来说可不好。 Which is not nice of me to say to my husband.
我真的以为他在开玩笑。 I really thought he was kidding.
然后我看着它，盯着它看。 And I looked at it and I stared at it.
而我在这里并不谦逊，我想。 And I'm not being humble here, I thought,
“”怎么可能呢？怎么可能？“。 "How is that possible? How is that possible?"
[重叠颤振]。 [overlapping chatter]
[你不要去看电视节目，期待着能有好的时间。 [Whedon] You don't go into a TV show expecting good hours.
去看电视节目，期待最坏的结果。 You go into a TV show expecting the worst.
总有人熬夜。 Somebody is always staying up.
我认为有很多节目每个人都会熬夜。 I think there are a lot of shows where everybody is always staying up.
最长的时间-真的直到。 For the longest time – really until
因为我不能-我是，你知道， because of the family I couldn't – I was, you know,
先进后出。 first in and last out.
如果你这么做，我觉得。 And if you're doing that, I think people
更宽容一点。 are a little more forgiving.
“灰”的第一年就像是，呃， The first year of Buffy was like, uh, was like
每个人都在狂喜，每个人都讨厌每个人， everybody was on ecstasy, everybody hated everybody,
每个人都爱每个人，没有人想回家。 everybody loved everybody, and nobody wanted to go home.
这就是我所描述的。 That was how I described it.
而我的妻子只是悄悄地说， And my wife just quietly said,
“我觉得船员们想回家” "I think the crew wanted to go home."
有一部分我非常非常喜欢。 There's a part of me that has a very, very fond
怀旧之情。 sense of nostalgia for the show.
但是，这六年来...的重量。 But, the weight of... for those six years,
从未离开过我。 it never left me.
这就是我所想的。 It was all that I thought about.
早上醒来时，我意识到。 When I woke up in the morning, I realized that I had been
通宵在想。 thinking about it through the night.
我基本上是在五月份求婚的，就在试播之后。 I basically proposed marriage in May, right after the pilot
被接走了，以为只是个电视剧。 was picked up, thinking that the show
几集后可能会被取消。 would probably be canceled after a few episodes.
然后我在第一季结束后三天结婚了。 And then I got married three days after the season one finale.
然后我让我的儿子。 And then I had my son right around the time
洛克和杰克要进入舱门。 that Locke and Jack were going into the hatch.
所以，这些是，我。 So, those are– The fact that I–
我人生的基准是通过表演来衡量的。 The benchmarks of my life are measured by the show.
不是应该相反吗？ Shouldn't it be the other way around?
六年来，我一直在做损失，这就是我所做的一切。 I did Lost for six years and that was all I did.
我的朋友希瑟是ABC的一名高管。 My friend, Heather, was an executive at ABC.
周五晚上她打电话给我。 And she called me on a Friday night,
然后她说，“你想在星期一见J.J.吗？” and she said, "Do you wanna meet with J.J. on Monday?"
然后我说，“是的，”在回答这个问题时， And I said, "yes," and in saying yes to that question,
基本上改变了我的命运。 I basically completely changed my destiny.
如果我答应了，希瑟就对我说了。 And– And if I had said yes, and then Heather had said to me
“听着，这将是你未来六年的生活。 "Listen, this is gonna be the next six years of your life.
“这将定义你。 "It is going to define you.
“当你死时，你名字旁边的字。 "The word next to your name when you die
“会失去的。不管你做什么， "is going to be Lost. No matter what you do,
“这是说迷失了作家，你知道吗？” "it's going to say Lost writer, you know?
嗯，你觉得怎么样？“ Um, how do you feel about that?"
我会说，“算了吧，我不参加会议。” I would have said, "Forget it, I'm not taking the meeting."
表现者的倦怠率为100%。 The burnout rate for showrunners is 100%.
100%的人这样做。 100% of the people who do this
到了五十年代中期到后期， stop by their mid to late 50s,
无论是成功还是失败。 whether in success or failure.
这就是问题所在：辞职太好了， So that's the problem: it's too good to quit,
而且这太难了。 and it's too hard to do.
如果你对他们说，唯一的办法。 If you said to them, the only way
下一集我就能演了。 that I'm gonna be able to produce the next episode
是在医院的轮床上，有个静脉注射流进了我的队伍， is on a hospital gurney with an IV running into my line,
他们会说，“太好了。什么样的轮床。 they would say, "Great. What kind of gurney
“你喜欢吗，因为这里有三个选择。 "do you like, 'cause here are three choices.
那你想要什么呢？“。 And what would you like in the IV?"
罗伯特？金]在这条路上的每一步都要做得那么多。 [Robert King] There's so much literally to do every step of the way.
如果我们没有彼此做这件事。 If we didn't have each other to do it,
我觉得我们会疯掉的。 I think we'd go crazy.
这里有节目运作人--单一的节目运作人。 And there are showrunners – single showrunners –
运行多个节目，我...我真的。 that run multiple shows, and I... I literally
不知道那是怎么..。 have no idea how that...
实际上我认为你不能。 I actually think that you can't.
我是说，你必须把它交给某人..。 I mean, you have to hand it off to someone...
我们在讨论这个。 We're having a little conversation about this,
如果你们想离开一分钟。 if you guys wanna leave for a minute.
是的，因为有些人说他们可以经营不止一个节目。 Yeah, because some people say they can run more than one show.
其实我不认为你能。 I actually don't think you can,
而不是放弃其中一个。 without giving up on one of them.
我是说，我很想知道他们是怎么做到的。 I mean, I'd love to know how they did it.
那一年我有三个节目，嗯， The year I had three shows, um,
我的注意力很集中。 I had a lot of focus.
56集，都拍了。 56 episodes, did them all.
我不想再那样做了。 I don't want to do that again.
但是，这里有一个宏伟的， But, there was a grandeur to it,
因为这是“我”的最后一年。 because it was the last year of Buffy,
所以我不能把球丢在那里。 so I couldn't drop the ball there.
那是萤火虫的第一年。 It was the first year of Firefly,
所以我不能把球丢在那里。 so I couldn't drop the ball there.
那是天使第四年，我想。 And it was the fourth year of Angel where I thought
大家都知道我要把球扔到这里。 everybody knows I'm gonna drop the ball here,
所以我不能把球丢在这里，因为那里。 so I can't drop the ball here because that's where
他们会找的。 they'll be looking for it.
以及我们在萤火虫上经历的情绪，。 And the emotion that we were going through on Firefly,
这很糟糕，但是很亲密。 which was terrible, but so bonding.
有一个元素，一旦你让他们都旋转。 There is an element of, once you get them all spinning
他们有点平衡。 they kind of balance a little bit.
你可以从这里到这里再到这里一点。 You can go from here to here to here a little bit.
但是，只在一定时间内。 But, only for a certain amount of time,
然后你就死在极度的老年。 and then you die of extreme old age.
♪♪
告诉我你收到警告了。 Please tell me you got a warning.
这是什么？纪录片？ What is this? A documentary film?
[笑]。 [laughing]
汉森：如果一部剧已经是第三年了，那就很成功了。 [Hanson] If a show is in its third year, it's a hit.
你可以用“相机后面”代替。 You can replace "behind the camera",
不能用“在摄像机前”代替。 you cannot replace "in front of the camera."
所以，如果有一场大的战斗，如果你们相处不好的话。 So, if there's a huge fight, if you're not getting along
到了谁会留下来的时候。 and it comes to who's gonna stay,
演员可能会赢。 the actor will probably win.
博切科的话我听说是“第一年。 The Bochco quote I heard was "The first year,
“他们为你工作，第二年，你们是合伙人。 "they work for you, second year, you're partners,
到了第三年，你会为他们工作。“。 and the third year, you work for them."
[重叠颤振]。 [overlapping chatter]
这是装束。受到监视。 This is dressed up. Monitored.
这真是个好主意。 This is such a good idea.
是的，新鞋--那是新鞋吗？ Yeah, new shoe– Are those new shoes?
那些是你的..。看看他们多新！ Are those your... Look how new they are!
他们是三平的！ They're triple-tied!
你在努力打扮得像样。 You're trying to look decent.
三平，三平.。 Triple-tied, those are triple-tied.
嗯，你甚至不知道他通常长什么样。 Uh-huh, you don't even know what he usually looks like.
[访问员]哦，好的，好的 [interviewer] Oh, okay, okay.
当我和我的演员打交道时，偶尔会有热情的人气 When I'm dealing with my cast, the occasional hot tempers
是不可避免的。 is impossible to avoid.
如果你幸运的话，你所拥有的论据， If you're lucky, the arguments that you have,
这一切都是基于性格和故事 it's all based in character and story
并尝试做最好的表演，你可以。 and trying to do the best show that you possibly can.
我试图着重于什么是建设性的， I try to focus on what's constructive,
一般来说，有一个注意事项 'cause generally, there's a note to be had
里面...里面有一个恶意的丢弃论证。 inside... inside a vicious throwdown argument.
我真的，你知道，尽量不要把毒素带到我的身上。 I really, you know, try to not bring poison onto my set.
如果一个演员有一个毒药的声誉 And if an actor has a reputation of being poison
我不带头我不在乎 I don't bring 'em on. I don't care
他的工作有多好。 how fucking good his work is.
我不想让某人破坏能量 I don't want somebody undermining the energy
我们对最终饲料的集合 that we have on the set that ultimately feeds
工作和展示是什么 the work and, and what the show is
以及人们如何看待节目。 and how... and how people perceive the show.
行动！ Action!
他在你面前威胁她？ He threatened her in front of you?
[Shawn Ryan]我们投射了 火山试播 [Shawn Ryan] We were casting the Shield pilot.
我为这个脚本感到非常自豪。 I was very proud of that script.
然后，演员们开始为维克·麦基进来阅读。 And then actors started to come in and read for Vic Mackey.
突然之间，听起来并不好听， And all of a sudden, it didn't sound so good,
我开始对此感到沮丧。 and I started to get really depressed about it.
我记得有一天，我转向克拉克约翰逊， And I remember one day, I turned to Clark Johnson,
我的导演，我说，“也许是脚本 our director, and I said, "Maybe the script
不如我认为的那么好。“ isn't as good as I think it is."
我记得第二天，Michael Chiklis进来， And I remember the next day, Michael Chiklis came in,
他坐下来，约六点钟左右 and he sat down, and he had about a six
或八分钟的试镜 or eight minute audition
就是从开始到结束，他是Vic Mackey。 that just from beginning to end, he was Vic Mackey.
他起床，他离开了房间， And he got up and he left the room,
我转向克拉克，我说：“不，我是一个伟大的作家。 and I turned to Clark and I said "No, I'm a great writer."
[笑]这是一个很好的例子，你知道吗 [laughing] And it's a– It's a good example of, you know,
当你发现那个演员的时候感觉很好 when you feel so great when you find that actor
这只是体现了一个角色。 that just embodies a role.
切！ Cut!
不用说了，布斯！ Don't have to be so mean, Booth!
做他们为他们写的是他们的工作。 It's their job to do what's written for them.
当然，他们是投资在他们的角色 And of course, they're invested in their characters
在某种程度上，我们只是没有 in a way that we're just not
因为他们花了所有的时间与它， because they spend all their time with it,
而我们花了七个角色的时间 whereas we're spending time with seven characters
最低限度。 at a minimum.
在大事情上，喜欢角色是否 On big things, like whether or not the character
应该在一个关系中，那我们知道我们要去哪里。 should be in a relationship, well, we know where we're going.
MM-嗯。他们没有。 Mm-hmm. And they don't.
他们相信我们当他们得到一个脚本， They trust us. When they get a script,
通常我们会打电话 usually we'll get a phone call
他们说：“哇，这是野蛮的。 of them saying, "Wow, this is wild.
我的意思是，我该怎么做？ I mean, how am I supposed to do this?"
你知道，你就像，“嗯，你觉得怎么样？ You know, and you're like, "Well, what do you think?"
那就是谈话开始的时候。 And then that's when the conversation begins.
例如，我们的主角，她正在迎接这些挑战 Our lead actress, for example, she's hit these challenges
即使我们自己，我们就像， that even ourselves, we're like,
“嗯，这会是一个长时间的谈话。” "Well, this is gonna take a long conversation."
但是，我的意思是，没有什么：“好的，那些听起来很棒，” But, I mean, like nothing: "Okay, guys, that sounds great,"
你知道，“我来破解吧。” you know, "Let me take a crack at it."
而且你知道，我们只是坐在这里 And you know, we're just sitting here flabbergasted
因为...我会问一些问题。 because... I would have asked some questions.
♪♪
[Jason O'Mara]在电视中，你会有很长的关系 [Jason O'Mara] In television, you're gonna have a long relationship
与你们在一起睡觉的人。 with the people that you're in bed with.
那些关系需要运作 And those relationships need to function
或者你不会有一个节目。 or you won't have a show.
在过去，我已经打过电话或者通过电子邮件发送了一个showrunner In the past, I've either called or emailed a showrunner
走了，“看，这里有东西 and gone, "Look, there's something here
“我不一定同意。 "that I don't necessarily agree with.
“我很想和你谈谈。 "I'd love to talk to you about it.
“这件事情是我们将要生活的东西， "Is it something we'll just live with for this episode,
“或者这是我们必须生活的东西 "or is this something that we'll have to live with
在将来？” in the future?"
作为演员，你是你的角色的守护者。 As an actor, you are the guardian of your character.
所以，你有权力能够说， So, you do have the authority to be able to say,
“我不认为我的性格会这样做，” "I don't think my character would do that,"
或者“如果我的角色这样做，我会喜欢它”。 or "I would love it if my character did this."
嗯，你可以说你想要什么 Um, you can say what you want.
你是你的性格的守护者。 You are the guardian of your character.
但是，你知道，演员有...他是老板。 But, you know, the showrunner has... He's the boss.
他是老板的男人，他有最终的说法 - He's the boss man, and he has the ultimate say –
或者她 - 有最终的说法 or she – has the ultimate say
决定你的角色是否会这样做， to decide whether your character would do that,
不管监护人怎么看。 regardless of what the guardian thinks.
网络电视有一种趋势 There's a tendency in network television
由于您所处的压力和时间紧张， because of the pressure and the time crunch that you're under,
无论什么场景都经过， is that no matter what scene comes through,
他们只是希望你这样做。 they just want you to do it.
没关系，如果它是好还是坏，只要这样做。 Doesn't matter if it's good or bad, just do it.
我不能这样工作。 And I can't work that way.
所以，最终我会停止生产 So, it ended up that I would stop production
30分钟，有时五或十， for 30 minutes, sometimes five or ten,
我们会坐下来，我们基本上会重写 and we would sit down and we would basically rewrite
场景就在那里。 the scene right there on the set.
我与汉克在一开始的关系 My relationship with Hank in the beginning
非常非常岩石。 was very, very rocky.
他32岁了 He was 32 years old.
他是一个婴儿，他以前从来没有做过。 He was a baby and he'd never done it before.
因此，你知道，他犯了一切错误 Consequently, you know, he made all the mistakes
当你受到这种压力时，你所做的。 that you make when you're put under that kind of pressure.
我知道我开车让他疯狂，因为我会得到一个脚本 - I know I drove him crazy, because I would get a script –
而我的人的技能当时并不是特别好 - and my people skills were not particularly good at the time –
我会走进去，我会去，“这是狗屎。 and I would walk in and I would go, "This is shit.
这就是为什么？！这没有任何意义。“ This is– Why?! This doesn't make any sense."
但是，为了他的荣誉，汉克写了最好的剧集 But, to his credit, Hank wrote the best episodes
的整个系列在他的三年 of the entire series in his three years
他在演出上工作。 that he worked on the show.
他有一次来找我，他说， He came to me at one point and he said,
“你知道，我将在本赛季结束时离开， "You know, I'm going to leave at the end of this season,
我要再做一个节目。“ and I'm going to do another show."
他说：“坦白说，当我看到你的名字 He said, "Quite honestly, when I see your name
在我的手机上来，我得到了荨麻疹。“ come up in my phone, I get the hives."
[笑] [laughing]
我爱他的诚实。 I loved him for his honesty.
和行动。 And action.
每个星期，我们华尔兹进入公司 Every week, we waltz into companies
就像这样，告诉他们如何解决他们的狗屎。 just like this one and tell them how to fix their shit.
现在，在Galweather-Stearn的情况下 Now, in the case of Galweather-Stearn
它已经引起了我的注意 it has come to my attention
有一个性骚扰的元素。 that there is a sexual harassment element.
性骚扰？告诉，欧比万 Sexual harassment? Do tell, Obi-Wan.
性感对不对？ Sexy, right?
哦! Oh!
[笑声] [laughter]
听起来如何，Jeannie？ How's that sound, Jeannie?
我们开工吧。 Let's do this.
[导演]剪。好。好，好，好 [director] Cut. Good. Good, good, good.
一个调整。我们再去吧 One adjustment. Let's go again.
哪个是在开始... Which is, at the beginning ...
马特是有趣的 [Kristen Bell] Matt is interesting
因为你不了解他是谁， because you don't get a sense of who he is,
因为他的工作是普遍的。 because his work is pervy.
他有一个深黑色的灵魂。 He has a dark black soul.
他的血液已经流过他的血管， He has got mud running through his veins,
我不知道它来自哪里。 and I don't know where it comes from.
因为那时，当你与他互动时， Because then, when you interact with him,
他很温柔，他说话很软 he's so gentle and he's so soft-spoken
他很善良，但我认为他有 and he's so kind, but I think he's got
他里面有很多黑暗的东西 a lot of dark stuff inside him
他在写作中出来了。 that he gets out in his writing.
[Carnahan]我喜欢提出一个想法 [Carnahan] I like coming up with an idea
然后得到直接的东西。 and then getting to direct that thing.
有些人真的不喜欢 Some people really don't like that.
我的意思是，汤姆·卡波诺斯，加利福尼亚州， I mean, Tom Kapinos, who does Californication,
我跟他说话，他不是 I talk to him, and he's not
对指导部分感兴趣。 that interested in the directing part.
...在这里不工作，我不会接受的。 ... does not work here, I will not accept it.
是的，他妈的两个！请离开。 Yeah, round fucking two! Please, go.
我认为妇女必须做的一件事就是加紧和直接。 I think one of things women have to do is step up and direct.
和我知道的所有男性演员 And all male showrunners that I know of
最终指挥自己的情节。 eventually direct their own episodes.
没有问题。 And there are no questions asked.
你知道，那家伙一直在写，所以当然 You know, that guy's been writing, so of course
他会指挥赛季开赛。 he's gonna direct the season opener.
我必须加强并做到这一点 I have to step up and do that,
因为我不喜欢有更多的审查。 because I don't like it that there is more scrutiny.
我认为对妇女有更多的审查。 I think there is more scrutiny on women.
我认为女性在这项业务上要难得多 I think it's much harder for women in this business
比在消息中。 than it was in news.
我发现自己在做这件事 And I find myself doing that thing
我认为这是唯一的女性， I think that is uniquely female, which is,
“他们都认为我是个bit子，他们都恨我。 "They all think I'm a bitch. They all hate me."
男人不用担心。我为男人工作， Men don't worry about that. I've worked for men,
他们不认为 - 他们不回家，像炖， they don't think– They don't go home and be like stewing,
“哦，天啊，他们以为我是个混蛋。” "Oh god, they think I'm an asshole."
我做。 I do.
第一个人在 - 你知道，如果所有的showrunners The first people in – you know, if all the showrunners
是白人，如果所有的高管都是白人， are white guys, if all the executives are white guys,
和少数民族的第一旅， and the first brigade of whoever the minority are,
是第一批女性 - 当然Tina Fey是辉煌的。 is the first group of women – of course Tina Fey is brilliant.
因为她必须是。 'Cause she has to be.
当然Lena Dunham是辉煌的。 Of course Lena Dunham is brilliant.
她必须是。 She has to be.
无论人们怎么想，我都有一种方式， Whatever people might think about me one way or the other,
我很擅长我必须。 I'm good at this; I have to be.
唯一的问题，如果有一个，呃， The only problem, if there is a, uh,
性别或基于种族的组成部分 gender or a racially-based component
谁来到房间里， to who gets let in the room,
决策者以某种方式相信 it's the decision maker believing somehow
那是因为你是个黑人 that because you're a black guy
你不能与Drew Carey合作， you can't work with Drew Carey,
因为他是一个白人。 because he's a white guy.
我想要黑色的观众吗？ Do I wanna get the black audience?
绝对。但我也只是在观众面前拍摄。 Absolutely. But I'd just like a shot at the audience, too.
♪♪
我认为参加漫画是非常重要的， I think attending Comic-Con is extremely important,
特别是对于像斯巴达克斯这样的流派节目。 especially for a genre show like Spartacus.
我们第一次来到这里，反应太棒了， The first time we came here, the response was fantastic,
真的帮助推出了这个节目。 and it really helped launch the show.
[人们欢呼] [people cheering]
这有点像一个演员的摇滚音乐会。 This is a little bit like a rock concert for a showrunner.
[欢呼，掌声] [cheering, applause]
作家现在处于前列， Writers are out in the forefront now,
就像演员和导演一样。 just like actors and directors.
人们比以往任何时候都更了解 People, more than ever, understand
如何创建节目。 how shows are created.
而且你真的不仅需要宣传你的节目， And you really need to not only promote your show,
你需要代表你的节目。 you need to represent your show.
[笑声] [laughter]
直到现在，Showrunners都是无形的， Showrunners were kind of invisible up until now,
直到我们品牌自己。 up until we branded ourselves.
你知道，古老的格言是只有一件事情更糟 You know, the old adage is there's only one thing worse
而不是被谈论，而不是被谈论。 than being talked about, and that's not being talked about.
所以，是的。我需要一个公关人员吗？是。 And so, yes. Do I need a publicist? Yes.
我需要Twitter吗？是。我需要品牌自己吗？是。 Do I need to Twitter? Yes. Do I need to brand myself? Yes.
我需要被称为J.T.而不是珍妮特·塔摩罗？ Do I need to be known as J.T. instead of Janet Tamaro?
是的，我可能会。 Yes, I probably do.
[摩尔]我认为，给予在线粉丝社区， [Moore] I think that, given the online fandom community,
人们现在有一个地方去 that people now have a place to go to
让自己沉浸在宇宙中 to, sort of, immerse themselves in the universe
一个他们真正喜欢的节目。 of a show that they really like.
在某种程度上，你有这样的要求 On a certain level, you kind of require
该以某种方式出现在该场地。 the showrunner to be present in that venue in some fashion.
因为最终是一个 Because the showrunner ultimately is the one
谁拥有人们对这些问题的答案。 who has the answers to the questions that people have.
所以，名人大概有一定的上升 So, there's probably a certain rise in celebrity
与一起。 that goes along with the showrunner.
[Whedon]当我开始，互联网社区的想法 [Whedon] When I started out, the idea of an internet community
是一个非常非常新鲜的想法。 was a very, very fresh idea.
事实上，我能够进入中间阶段， And the fact that I was able to wade into the middle of that,
我的作家也是如此， and so were my writers,
当我想，我的演员， and when I wanted to, my actors,
这是一个新的现象。 that was a new phenomenon.
为了能够写和让人认出你， And to be able to write and have people recognize you,
并能够与你说话， and be able to speak to you about it,
不仅仅是作家通常得到的。 is more than a writer usually gets.
[Lindelof]我认为互联网必须存在才能排序 [Lindelof] I think the internet had to exist in order to sort of
创造一个的故事。 create the story of the showrunner.
你能想象大卫·林奇是否有兴趣 Can you imagine if David Lynch had an interest in
并且当双胞胎峰会出现时，可以访问互联网？ and access to the internet when Twin Peaks came along?
我认为大卫·林奇绝对会是 I think that David Lynch absolutely would have been
直接与他的粉丝沟通。 communicating directly with his fans.
人们会知道更多。 People would have known much more.
那里会有更大的作者感。 There would have been a greater sense of authorship there.
[Abrams]互联网正在成长 [Abrams] The internet was sort of just becoming
当我们正在进行 Felicity 时，这是一件事情 a thing when we were doing Felicity.
你知道，在专业网站上我们会看到 You know, on specialty websites we would sort of see
早期阶段的共识 early stages of consensus
人们在想什么剧集。 of what people were thinking of episodes.
这对我来说真的很清楚 And it really did become clear to me
这是...电视正在成长 that this was... TV was becoming
有点像剧院， a little bit like theater,
你会在哪里做某事， where you would perform something,
几乎在实时，你会听到 and almost in real time, you'd be hearing
笑声或掌声， the laughter or the applause,
或绝对痛苦的耳聋沉默。 or the absolutely painful deafening silence.
那么你可以用那么好的东西呢 And what was kind of great was you could use that
作为您的工具之一。 as one of your tools.
♪♪
[简·埃森森]我喜欢Twitter。我觉得我是出生于鸣叫。 [Jane Espenson] I love Twitter. I feel like I was born to tweet.
这是一种让我知道我是谁的方式。 It's a way for me to sort of let people know who I am.
你可以告诉球迷什么时候跟踪故事。 You can tell when the fans are tracking the story.
你可以告诉他们什么时候困惑。 You can tell when they're confused.
你不想让迷惑的粉丝。 You don't want confused fans.
你可以告诉他们何时无聊。你不想无聊的粉丝。 You can tell when they're bored. You don't want bored fans.
所以，它给你一个温度的方法。 So, it does give you a way to take the temperature.
但是，Twitter可能是危险的。 But, Twitter can be kind of dangerous.
如果 Cheers 的作者有Twitter， If the writers of Cheers had had Twitter,
他们会被人们围困 they would have been besieged by people going
“让Sam和Diane在一起。” "Get Sam and Diane together."
而且你知道，有时候，粉丝想要什么 And you know, like, sometimes what the fans want
是不同于他们真正想要的。 is different than what they really want.
[DeKnight]很少与非常负面的批评互动。 [DeKnight] Very rarely do I interact with the very negative criticism.
但是，有时候有些东西太糟糕了 But, sometimes there's something so egregious
我只需要评论。 that I just have to comment.
我已经陷入了灰尘，两次 And I've gotten into a dust-up, twice now
我可以想到，以后我发现了什么 that I can think of, where I found out later
我实际上是在一场大喊大叫的比赛 I was actually in a yelling match
像一个12岁的。 with like a 12-year-old.
一些表演更适合数字存在， Some shows are much better suited to a digital presence,
比其他网站更重要。 to a web presence, than others.
迷失 可能是最好的例子。 Lost is probably the best example.
迷失 发现自己在这波浪中突然出现 Lost found itself riding this wave where suddenly
他们意识到人们想要更多的信息 they realized people wanted more information,
他们非常聪明，他们开始了 and they were very savvy about it, and they began
打造各种品牌商品， to create all sorts of branded merchandise,
不只是在网络上 - 他们也有一个游戏和一本书。 not just on the web – they also had a game and a book.
但是，有一点，卡尔顿·切斯说：“你知道， But, at one point, Carlton Cuse said, "You know,
“有时我不觉得像一个演员， "sometimes I don't feel like a showrunner,
我觉得像一个品牌经理。“ I feel like a brand manager."
[Lindelof]有这样的需求我们不断的走出去 [Lindelof] There was this demand for us to constantly get out
并解释事情。 and explain things.
我们觉得如果我们否认我们的观众， And we felt like if we denied our audience,
如果我们基本上说，“对不起，这个节目自己说， if we basically said, "Sorry, the show speaks for itself,
我们不会说这个节目，“ and we're not gonna talk about the show at all,"
这实际上会伤害到节目。 that actually would have hurt the show.
所以，通过使自己的可用性， And so, by making ourselves sort of available,
最终有时候要批评和赞美 ultimately sometimes to criticism as well as praise
或问题或任何事情，我们觉得 or questions or anything, we felt that
这是为了节目的最大利益。 that was in the best interest of the show.
在演出的第一个季节结束时， That evolved to, by the end of the first season of the show,
卡尔顿和我被要求做一个特别的 Carlton and I were asked to do a special
在这里我们解释了“这里是所有的事情 where we explained "Here are all the things
你需要知道为了享受结局。“ that you need to know in order to enjoy the finale."
所以，突然，我只是一个作家 So, suddenly, I'm just a writer
谁偶尔会接受新闻界的采访。 who occasionally does interviews with the press.
然后我打开ABC，还有我的丑秃的头， And then I turn on ABC, and there's my ugly bald head,
你知道，试图解释黑石是什么。 you know, trying to explain what the black rock is.
而卡尔顿和我刚刚转过来 And Carlton and I just turned to each other
并说：“这是怎么发生的？” and said "How the hell did this happen?"
♪♪
[重叠喋喋不休] [overlapping chatter]
[Espenson]我们处于一个新时代的前沿， [Espenson] We are at the forefront of a new era,
这是一个真正明显区别的时代 and it is an era with some really distinct differences
从电视以前的方式。 from the way TV has been done before.
当我们开始 Husbands，我的第一个想法是， When we started Husbands, my first thought was,
“好的，我们把它放在网上，我们展示 "Okay, we put this up on the web, we demonstrate
有这样的观众，然后电视就会想要它。“ there's an audience for this, and then TV will want it."
现在，我意识到，不，不，我们为什么要去那里， Now, I realize, like, no, why would we wanna go there,
当我们展示了它的观众时 when we've demonstrated there's an audience for it
在哪里？ right where it is?
现在，什么是互联网 Right now, what the internet
能够提供正在成长。 is capable of providing is growing.
什么电视能够持续下降。 What TV is capable of holding onto is shrinking.
但是，他们没有在中间遇到 But, they haven't met in the middle
以任何重大的方式。 in any significant way.
在某些时候，我认为他们必须。 At some point, I think they will have to.
我觉得我做的是安全的 I feel like what I do is secure
因为我是一个作家，首先是最重要的。 in that I'm a writer, first and foremost.
我想为某人写点东西 I'm gonna want to write something for somebody
有人想要这样做。 and someone's gonna wanna make it.
你知道，如果我在写东西， You know, and if I am writing for something
这只是在互联网上，我们正在表演 that's just on the internet, and we're performing
喜欢在something.com上， like just on something.com,
如果我很高兴做到这一点，我可以养活我的家人， if I'm happy doing it and I can feed my family,
我也很高兴做到这一点。 I'm happy doing that, too.
[Espenson]我们可以以消费者最想要的方式来做。 [Espenson] We can do it in the way the consumer most wants it.
直接给他们，他们可以帮助我们资助。 Get it directly to them, they can help us fund it.
有很多人投入大型电视节目。 There are a lot of people invested in a big TV show.
网路展示，你投入了， Web show, you're invested in it,
这太棒了 which is fantastic.
广泛分销渠道平台， The profusion of platforms of channels of distribution,
这是一切爆炸，以前是 it's all kind of exploding, and it used to be
你可以明白我认为电视的宇宙 that you could understand I think the television universe
作为太阳系，太阳是广播电视 - as a solar system, and the sun was broadcast television –
三到四个网络 - 以及其他一切 the three or four networks – and everything else
是在太阳周围旅行的卫星。 was a satellite that traveled around the sun.
而这显然不再是模范。 And that clearly no longer is the model.
太阳爆炸了 The sun has exploded.
还有很多小太阳系建立起来， And there are a lot of little solar systems being set up,
以及我们将有一个连贯的整体的想法 and the idea that we'll ever have a coherent whole
再次这样，我不知道我们会不会。 like that again, I'm not sure we will.
♪♪
[TV] 他现在在那里。他在那里。 [TV] He's up there right now. There he is.
他在他的私人G6中就在那里，他来到这里， He's up there in his private G6 and he's coming here,
我们的小公司在他胖的肚子里。 to our tiny company up in his fat fucking belly.
所以，道格拉斯，我们需要做什么， So, what we need to do, Douglas,
我们需要得到亚当。 is we need to get Adam.
在编辑室里有点令人心碎， It's a little bit heartbreaking being in the editing room,
因为只有这么多你可以做得更好。 because there's only so much you can make better.
真的有这么多事情 There are really so many things
你必须在你拍摄的那一天的顶部 that you have to be on top of on the day that you're shooting
你知道，你只是在编辑室付款。 that you just, you know, pay for in the editing room.
你对破裂的想法有什么看法？ What did you think about the idea of breaking it up
分为两节，一节十节 into two sections, one after 10
和13后？ and one after 13?
因为我昨天晚上看着像你一样，你知道， 'Cause I watched it last night like a, you know,
像三年级生。不，完全是... like a third grader. No, it was totally...
我就像，“哇，那很酷！ I was like, "Wow, that's cool!"
因为我一直在写这么多剧集， 'Cause I've been writing so many episodes,
我没有在这里度过足够的时间。 I have not spent enough time in here.
所以现在，我正在做很多的追赶。 So now, I'm doing a lot of catching up.
[电视] ...就像这样，告诉他们如何解决他们的狗屎 [TV] ... just like this one, and tell them how to fix their shit.
嗯，这周是我们的。对，珍妮？ Well, this week it's us. Right, Jeannie?
芝加哥代码和 Terriers 正在取消 Both The Chicago Code and Terriers being canceled
很难，因为我以为我们做了很好的节目。 were hard, in that I thought we'd made good shows.
我得到了，如果你做的东西不好， I get that if you make something that isn't good,
这是...它会失败。 it's... it's gonna fail.
好莱坞的困难是好事 The hard thing about Hollywood is that good things
也可以失败。 can fail, too.
当 The Shield 在中间时 When The Shield was in the middle
所有的赞誉，我知道不是一切 of all its critical acclaim, I knew that not everything
会这样去 would go that way.
所以，对我来说，我就像，“好吧， The Shield So, for me, I was like, "Okay, The Shield
在某种程度上允许我失败。“ kind of gives me permission to fail at this point."
我失败了 And fail I did.
[笑]嗯... [laughing] Um...
你知道，我做了我想要的节目。 You know, I made the shows I wanted to make.
我们对 Terriers有一个可怕的名字。 We had a horrible name for Terriers.
我们从来没有能够向观众解释 We never could properly explain to an audience
什么显示会是。 what that show was gonna be.
芝加哥代码当然有了一枪。 Chicago Code certainly had its shot.
超级碗后的夜晚有一个大的首映式。 Got a big premiere, the night after the Super Bowl.
超级碗中有很多广告。 Got a lot of ads during the Super Bowl.
我不能说有人搞砸我们 I can't say that anybody screwed us.
自我怀疑，而不是我的能力 Self-doubt creeps in, not about my ability
让我认为一个好的节目是， to make what I think a good show is,
但我的口味在哪里与美国的口味相符？ but where are my tastes aligning up to America's taste?
我已经把这个教训当作一个演员 I've learned the lesson as a showrunner
你可以控制你可以控制的东西。 that you can control the things you can control.
不幸的是，你无法控制 And unfortunately, you can't control
3亿人什么拨号， 300 million people and what dial,
你知道，他们每天晚上把拨号盘转到哪个频道。 you know, what channel they turn the dial to every night.
任何时候你做任何事情，你把它放在那里 Any time you do anything and you put it out there
它失败了，呃，这当然是 and it fails, uh, it's of course
一个令人沮丧的事情 a depressing thing.
Undercovers 是一个特别痛苦的失望。 Undercovers is an especially painful disappointment.
我有这样的表演，因为我想 I sort of did the show because I wanted to
做我想要的工作室。 do what the studio that I work with wanted.
他们正在寻找一个正是这样的节目。 They were looking for a show that was in that vein.
这不是一个很好的理由。 And that's not really a good reason to do it.
其次我记得在Emmys一年 Secondly, I remember being at the Emmys one year
只看到一群惊人的白人。 and just seeing an amazing array of white people.
这真是我见过的最白的房间。 It was just really the whitest room I'd ever seen.
而且，如果我们要演出这个节目的想法， And the idea of, well, if we're gonna cast this show,
也许我们应该寻找颜色的演员，为什么不呢？ maybe we should look for actors of color, like, why not?
什么杀了我，而不是一个表演 What kills me is, instead of it being a show
说“看，你知道， that said "Look, you know,
色彩领先等于成功，“ leads of color equals success,"
这是另一个不起作用的例子。 it was yet another example of that not working.
[小孩玩] [kids playing]
有些显示你做，这只是一份工作。 Some shows you do, it's just a job.
这真的是我的一生。 This is literally my life.
这是非常个人的。 It's extremely personal.
人们似乎喜欢它，当他们看到它。 People seem to like it when they see it.
所以，这是令人沮丧的，你的感觉 So, it's frustrating that you feel like
如果你能把它拿到人面前， if you could just get it in front of people,
我知道我们做得很好，你知道吗 I know we did a good job, you know,
你会喜欢的 you're going to like it.
♪♪
那是那里的派对商店。 That was the party store back there.
这就是呃安德烈·布鲁格的话 And this is, uh, Andre Braugher's
人物的房子和丽莎·盖·汉密尔顿， character's house, and Lisa Gay Hamilton,
我猜他们仍然有大部分的打扮。 which I guess they still have most of the set dressing up.
我们在展会首映后的第二天结束了。 We wrapped the day after our show premiered.
所以，我们在12月6日举行首演， So, we had the premiere on December 6th,
我正在12月7日开车 and I was driving to the set on December 7th
感觉真的很棒，因为首映真的很好。 feeling really great 'cause the premiere was really good.
这将是我们大家在船上的最后一天 It's gonna be the last day with the crew where we all
得到一个很好的时间，我真的很希望 get to have a good time and I was really hoping
要在我的手机上发送评分， to get sent the ratings on my phone,
我可以去，“哦，看，嘿， and that I could go, "Oh, look, hey,
我们做得很好，大家！“ we did great, everybody!"
而且，所以我们工作了几个小时， And, so we're working for a few hours,
然后评分进来。 and then the ratings came in.
我看着我的手机说， And I looked at my phone and said,
“我永远不会再看到这些人了。” "I'm never gonna see these people ever again."
[笑]因为是... [laughing] 'Cause it was...
这不是...不是很好。 It was not... not very good.
嗯，那么，我恢复了。 Um, so then, I recovered.
[笑]呃... [laughing] And, uh...
我们没有死亡，任何想象力的延伸。 We're not dead, by any stretch of the imagination.
我们可能会没事 We're probably going to be okay.
但是，这是一个不好的数字。 But, it was... It was a bad number.
这是一个非常糟糕的数字。 It was a very bad number.
感觉不好，因为你... And it... It feels bad, because you...
演出中的每个人都非常努力， everybody on the show worked so incredibly hard,
他们正在帮助你制作你想要的东西。 and they're helping you make the thing that you wanna make.
所有你想做的都是给他们好消息。 And all you wanna do is give them good news.
所以，你只是...这是一个巨大的整个工作季节 And so, you're just... It was... a huge whole season of work
下来一个愚蠢的电子邮件 coming down to one stupid email
去，“对不起，”你知道吗 going, "well, sorry," you know?
我可能会喜欢一个节目，只是想要如此糟糕 I might love a show, and just want so badly
相信它可以做到。 to believe that it can make it.
但是，与我工作的人正确 But, the people with whom I work will correctly
通常轻轻地对我说， [chuckling] and usually gently, say to me,
“嘿，看看这个。 "Hey, look at this.
不，我们知道你相信它，但...“ No, we know you believe in it, but..."
而且你知道这就是这个业务， And you know, that's where this becomes a business,
并在此之后做出正确的业务决策， and the right business decision after that point,
有很多钱涉及。 there's a lot of money involved.
不用说，这不行，“它伤害了。 Needless to say, "that didn't work," it hurts.
那是最糟糕的电话。 And that's the single worst phone call.
在这种情况下，必须打电话给showrunner And in this case, to have to call a showrunner
与你形成了一种关系，并说， with whom you've formed a relationship, and say,
“嘿，路过了，我们试过了。 "Hey, road's over. We tried.
是的，我们正在取消它。 Yeah, we're canceling it."
它很烂，你知道吗 It sucks, you know?
♪♪
[男子]另外一轮掌声，为“我的边缘”的演员和船员。 [man] Another round of applause for the cast and crew of Fringe.
[欢呼] [cheering]
♪♪
是的，当它结束了 Yeah, when it's over...
我会...我会很伤心 I'll... I'll be sad.
这将是非常困难的。 It's gonna be very difficult.
这就像你放弃，你知道，附件。 It's like you're giving away, you know, an appendage.
因为这是一个很好的来源 Because it is a very good source
对我来说，你知道吗 of communication for me, you know?
而且，我会想念他的。 And um, I'm gonna miss him.
所以，我发现自己，即使是现在， So, I find myself, even right now, um,
你知道，重写的场景是完美的。 you know, rewriting scenes that are perfectly good.
你懂？因为 - 因为它不一样的感觉 You know? Because– 'Cause it's not the same feeling.
就像在任何其他季节一样，你就像， Like, in any other season, you're like,
“哦，好吧，接下来！你懂？ “完了！” "Oh! Okay, next!" you know? "Finished!"
“邮票！”你知道，“走了！你懂？然后你得到 "Stamp!" you know, "Gone!" you know? And then you get
编辑它，你看到它，然后它在空中。 to edit it and you see it and then it goes on the air.
你很放心，老实说， You're kind of relieved, to be honest,
下一个脚本已经完成， that the next script has been finished,
因为你知道它总是在你身后爬行， because you know it's always creeping behind you going,
“我要抓住你，我会抓住你的。” "I'm gonna catch you, I'm gonna catch you."
嗯，今年没有，那一切都没了。 Um, there's none of that this year, that's all gone.
这就是，嗯， And it's all, um,
“哦，这太可怕了。” "Oh, this is so terribly sad."
♪♪
[林德洛夫]我们有了非常深刻的实现时刻， [Lindelof] We had this very profound moment of realization,
那是：同一年，我们要做我们的终点 which is: the same year that we were gonna do our end point
是 Sopranos 结尾的一年。 was the year that the Sopranos finale aired.
所以，卡尔顿和我都看过了 Sopranos 的结局 So, Carlton and I both watched the Sopranos finale
当时我们在纽约，我们有了 and we were in New York at the time, and we had
第二天早上讲话。 a speaking engagement the next morning.
而且，我们刚刚被吹走了 And, we just were completely blown away
由“Sopranos”的结局令人咋舌。 by how awesome the Sopranos finale was.
第二天早上，我们站起来，我们开始谈论它， And the next morning, we got up, we started talking about it,
然后我们和这些其他人一起进了这个房间， and then we went into this room with all these other people,
我们就像：“你看到了 Sopranos 的结局 and we were like, "Did you see the Sopranos finale
昨晚？“他们就像， last night?" And they were like,
“是啊，是不是一个cop-out？ "Yeah, wasn't it a cop-out?"
我们看着对方说，“我们是他妈的。 And we looked at each other and said "we're fucked."
至于回到电视， As far as getting back into TV,
我觉得有一定的期望水平 I feel like there's a certain level of expectation
这肯定会放在我下一步做的任何事情上。 that is definitely gonna be placed on whatever I do next.
而在此之前，我想我会多一点点 Whereas before, I think I would have been a little more
说，宽松，自由，说， foot-loose and fancy free and said,
“哦，让我们试试一下，”或者“让我们试试看。” "oh, let's try this out," or "let's try that out."
现在，我就像...我很好，你知道，抱着自己 Now, I'm like... I'm kind of, you know, holding myself
达到一个非常高的标准是什么将是这个想法 to a very high standard for what is gonna be the idea
我有点跟着跑。 that I kinda take and run with.
突然间我们参与的每个项目， Every project that suddenly we're involved in,
或者说我是对的， or that I say yes to,
可能是另一个，你知道，我花了几个小时 is potentially another, you know, hour I'm spending
不是与我的家人， not with my family,
你知道，另一个半小时或什么。 you know, another half hour or whatever.
但是，有一个关于运行一个系列的奇妙的事情。 But, there's a wonderful thing about running a series.
这是一个不断变化的，有机的，生动的东西。 It's an evolving, organic, living thing.
作为一名生产者而不是一名演员， Being a producer but not a showrunner,
我可以从远方观察这件事， I can kind of from afar observe this thing,
有时候，我不用这样做。 and at times, be grateful that I'm not having to do that.
但是，如果我没有说，我会对你说谎 But, I would be lying to you if I didn't say
我想念这份工作，并在那里做这件事。 I miss that job, and being there and doing that.
所以有一天，我会很爱 And so, one day, I would love
能够再次做到这一点，如果他们有我的话。 to be able to do that again, if they'll have me.
[凯利]电视的乐趣是它以这样的速度工作 [Kelley] The fun of television is that it works at such a pace
你知道，这个月的第一个你写的东西 that you write something on, you know, the first of the month
然后在一个月内播放。 and then it's airing in a month.
这是非常...你真的没有 - It's very... You don't really have–
我的意思是，数以百万计的人都在看。 I mean, millions of people are seeing it.
这是那么紧急呢这么令人兴奋 It's that urgency that's so exciting
而且呃...对于任何人而言都很难做到。 and, uh... and rare for anyone to be able to do.
是的，是的，我做。我真的很喜欢我做的事情 And so... Yeah, I do. I do love what I do.
有时我希望我能多睡一会儿。 There's times where I wish I could sleep a little more.
很难，你牺牲了很多 It's hard, you sacrifice a lot
当你负责这么多事情的时候。 when you are in charge of so many things.
最终，我希望能够放弃 And ultimately, I would love to be able to give away
我的一些责任或分享他们一点点 some of my responsibilities or share them a little bit
比我早已好 better than I do already.
而且我认为对于很多的演员来说， And I think that for a lot of showrunners,
对或错，你拥有的控制量 right or wrong, the amount of control that you have
在这些情况下是什么使事情 in these situations is what makes things
对观众感到特别。 feel special to an audience.
[克里斯·唐尼]曾经是你会得到这个节目 [Chris Downey] It used to be that you'd get the show
直到你想把枪放在你的嘴里， up until you wanted to put a gun in your mouth,
然后你会发现这些神奇的 and then you would find these magical showrunners
谁进来，谁是那种 - who would come in, who were kind of –
我们喜欢称他们为临终关怀工作者 - we like to call them sort of like hospice workers –
谁喜欢喂这个节目 who kind of like feed the show
并给予缓解药物的痛苦。 and give it pain relieving medicine.
“哦，哦，哦，那七年级吗 "Oh, oh, oh, is that season seven?
那是第七季，不是吗？没错，是的！ That is season seven, isn't it? That's right, yeah!"
慢慢地为你的节目姑息治疗 It's palliative care for your show as it slowly...
生命从它的衰退，然后它死了。 The life ebbs from it, and then it dies.
而现在，我觉得还有很多 And now, I think there's a lot more
摇篮到坟墓的演员。 cradle-to-the-grave showrunners.
你试着让他们直到你想 You try to make them till you think
也许你不能做任何更好的。 maybe you can't make any more good ones.
是啊。或者，你知道，人们停止观看。 Yeah. Or, you know, people stop watching.
♪♪
在我职业生涯的早期， At one point early on in my career,
我担心我已经用完了想法。 I was worried that I had run out of ideas.
你知道吗，我以为，那怎么办？ You know, I thought, well, what if that's it?
如果井干了怎么办？ What if the well is dry?
十，十一年后， Ten, eleven years later,
我面临着相反的问题， I'm faced with the opposite problem,
我的项目板上有很多项目， is I have so many projects up on my project board,
我看着他们，意识到我要去去山雀 that I look at them and realize I'm gonna go tits up
在我得到所有这些东西在那里之前。 before I get all this stuff out there.
那我开始思考，好吧，没什么可说的 Then I started thinking, well, there's nothing to say
我必须做所有这一切。 that I have to do all of this.
我希望遵循J.J.的路径。艾布拉姆斯。 I would love to follow the path of... of a J.J. Abrams.
他是我一直仰望的人， He's someone that I definitely look up to,
不仅在创意层面，而且在商业模式上。 on not only a creative level, but on a business model.
达到你能拥有的水平 To get to a level where you can have
电视多重节目， multiple shows on television,
在那里你可以与作家共同创作节目 where you can co-create shows with the writers
你曾经和爱过， you've worked with and love,
你也可以有一个功能的职业生涯。 and you can also have a feature career.
我认为这是拍摄的理想的东西。 I think that is... that is the ideal thing to shoot for.
这些粉丝是什么？ What, are these fans?
[重叠喋喋不休] [overlapping chatter]
这是一个难以置信的困难的事情， It is an incredibly difficult business to break into,
特别是像我这样的人。 especially for people like me.
我没有在好莱坞长大。 I didn't grow up in Hollywood.
我在南泽西的一个小小城镇长大。 I grew up in a tiny little town in south Jersey.
我不能从好莱坞的梦想中走出来。 I could not have been further from the Hollywood dream.
呃，但是我一直都想这样做。 Uh, but I had always wanted to make that happen.
而且，你知道，这是一种... And, you know, it's kind of a...
几乎是1940年代的“gee whiz”的演讲， almost a 1940's "gee whiz" kind of speech,
但是，你知道，如果你遵循你的梦想 but, you know, if you follow your dreams
你永远不会放弃，你会得到你想要的。 and you never give up, you will get what you want.
这可能不是你期望的方式。 It may not be how you expect it.
它可能不在你期望的时间框架内。 It may not be in the timeframe you expect it.
但是，你会做到这一点。 But, you will make it.
[相机点击] [cameras clicking]
当我大学毕业时，我记得一份工作面试 When I was fresh out of college, I remember a job interview
有人说“你在哪里看到你自己 where somebody said "Where do you see yourself
在五年内？“我想， in five years?" and I thought,
你知道，我不知道我在吃什么 you know, I don't know what I'm having for lunch.
所以，这不是我会回答的问题。 So, that's not a question I'll answer.
我在哪里看到自己？我在哪里可以看到这个系列？ Where do I see myself? Where do I see this series?
我认为这是一个系列 I think that this is a series that has
长时间的能力。 the ability to go for a long time.
TNT是一个很好的网络。 TNT is a great network to be on.
而他们并不希望把你打倒在棋盘上。 And they're not looking to knock you off the chess board.
我现在很高兴地告诉这些故事。 I'm very happy telling these stories right now.
但是，我想，如果你对我说， But, I think, if you said to me,
“你会在你生命的未来八年这样做”， "you're gonna do this for the next eight years of your life,"
我会想，“真的吗？ I would think, "really?"
我应该去“哦，呀！ And I should be going "Oh, yay!"
这就是我应该在哪里，也许在我有了 That's where I should be, and maybe after I've had
一些睡觉和假期我会想， some sleep and a vacation I'll think,
“是的，再八年！” "Yeah, eight more years!"
但是，现在我在想，“还有八年？ But, right now, I'm thinking, "No. Eight more years?
你知道有多少？ Do you know how many that is?"
当节目取消时，嗯， When the show got canceled, um,
之后有一段非常漫长的时期 there was a very protracted period afterwards
我都快乐了 where I both was happy
有另一个项目分心我 to have another project to distract me
我遇到了很多麻烦 and I was having a lot of trouble
忘记某个时代的男人 forgetting Men of a Certain Age.
我正在写我的导向，同时， I was writing my pilot, and at the same time,
我在电话里想看看 I'm on the phone trying to see
如果某个年龄的男人可以去另一个网络。 if Men of a Certain Age can go to another... another network.
这就像你的女朋友在昏迷中， It's like your girlfriend's in a coma,
但他们要去，“嘿，你想去一些日期？ but they're going, "Hey, you wanna go on some dates?"
当你在日期的时候，我想在某个时候， And when you're on the date, I guess at some point,
你可能忘了几分钟， you forget maybe for a few minutes,
然后你回家回去， and then you come back home and go,
“哦，还在昏迷吗 "Oh, still in a coma.
“如果你脱离了昏迷，那将会很好 "It'd be nice if you got out of the coma
所以我不必去日期。“ so I don't have to go on the dates."
我不知道为什么我刚刚这样做了伍迪·艾伦。 I don't know why I just did that as Woody Allen.
这是真的 - 请削减，所有这一切。 It was really– Please cut that, all of that.
[笑] [laughing]
我和20世纪福克斯进行了交易。 I went into my deal with 20th Century Fox.
那就开始了。 Then that started.
那么那就是开始了，“好吧，要继续前进。” So, that was the beginning of, "Okay, time to move on."
♪♪
这是将要发生的事情。 Here's what's gonna happen.
我老了。我没有人会打电话给我。 I'm old. I'm 53. No one will call me.
没有人会希望我成为一名演员。 No one will want me to be a showrunner.
那么问题会是我去写一本书吗？ And then the question will be will I go write a book?
我会为其中一个人上班吗？ Will I go work for one of the people
谁来过我？ who have come up past me?
我不知道这些事情的答案， I don't know the answer to any of those things,
因为现在，我看不到过去的圣诞节。 because right now, I cannot see past Christmas.
但是，你知道，我应该是一个英语教授 But, you know, I'm supposed to be an English professor
在加拿大，我已经有了更多的乐趣 in Canada, and I'm already having more fun
比我应该是... than... than I was supposed to.
♪♪
首先，我想要一个节目 First of all, I want a show
非洲裔美国人的领导做得很好。 with an African-American lead to do well.
特别是唐Cheadle，因为他... Especially Don Cheadle, 'cause he...
没有人比他更值得。 Nobody deserves it more than him.
然后我想继续做这个节目，因为它是... Then I'd like to keep making the show, 'cause it's...
我觉得很有趣这很好 I feel like it's fun. And it's good.
而且，你知道，我希望人们会看。 And, you know, I hope people will watch it.
所以嗯... So, um...
是的，我很紧张，当然可以。 Yeah, I'm nervous, for sure.
[重叠喋喋不休] [overlapping chatter]
谢谢。 Thank you.
我非常兴奋地向你们展示这个节目。 I'm so excited to be showing you guys this show.
我不知道我想做一个表演 I didn't know that I wanted to make a show
关于管理顾问。我没有 - about management consultants. I didn't–
但是，我们已经非常努力地掩盖了这个事实 But, um, we've tried very hard to hide that fact
在营销方面，也隐瞒事实 in the marketing of it, and also hide the fact
这是关于丰富的混蛋。 that it's about rich assholes.
任何人在房间里都不犯罪。 No offense to anybody in the room.
我很尴尬地说，我觉得很好。 I'm embarrassed to say that I feel great about it.
我通常想把东西分开。 I usually want to pick things apart.
但是，我其实真的感觉很好。 But, I actually really feel good about it.
[掌声] [applause]
展示最大的挑战 The biggest challenge making the show
每天都在遇到自己 is encountering myself every day
我有能力， and what I'm capable of,
并且延伸了你的天赋的极限 and kind of stretching the limits of what your talent is
你的经历是什么 and what your experience is.
而且幸运的是，我已经做了几次， And thankfully, I've done it a couple times,
所以我有 - 我犯了很多大错误。 so I have– I've made a lot of big mistakes.
所以，我可以...我想我从中学到了很多。 And so, I can... I think I've learned a lot from those.
这是一个重大的时间承诺。 This is a major time commitment.
你知道，这是我一生中的一大块 It's been, you know, a big chunk of my life
在过去一年 for the last year.
但是，我会高兴地再做一次 But, I would happily do it again
如果我有机会，肯定。 if I got the chance, for sure.
你知道吗 It's amazing to get to just do it right once, you know?
这是惊人的，完全值得的。 0It's amazing, totally worth it.
本纪录片由@老婆的小三@翻译
本片由@老婆的小三@校对